To all married or divorced guys. Lets start fighting our corner!

[Elwood]

I remember one of the guys who used to pick on me.. well no.. used to single me out for special torture... one of the ones who I ran into as he trolled a gay bar's back room.

He said "You just don't know how hard it was for me." I think he wanted me to feel sory for him. I just walked away. I probably should have kick the snot out of him.

I don't give a shit how hard it was for him, to be honest. I had bigger problems.

Sorry, I'm not ready to make nice on this one.

I have never picked on you and, I never said how hard it was for me!
We are all not like that!!!

 

[1gayguy]

I don't give a shit how hard it was for him, to be honest. I had bigger problems.

Can you at least see to the point that he was handling his demons in the only way his adolecent brain could handle?
Also if your basing your current thought process on things that happened in high school and/or college, maybe it's time to let those things go.
I was a wimp in my teens and because of it was beaten up, singled out, threatend, and what not. A lot of which I carried around into early adulthood and at some point it disapeared. It doen't matter now.
You've come along way since then and should be proud of what you've accomplished, just as I have, just as anyone of us here have.
At some point we all come to the realization that we are made up of everything that has molded us along the way. The good, the bad and the mundane all shape us some how, some way. We can choose what we want to hold onto and cherrish and discard things that are no longer useful or cause us pain.
Life is not just black and white or black or white. It's all the shades in between.
Not every day is all good or all bad. There are parts of each day that are boring, maddening, exciting,, happy. Just as every moment of every day is different, so are the people we come in contact with in each of these moments.
It's because of where I've been, who I've met, what I've done and what I haven't, that makes me who I am today.

 

[luminum]

I recognize that the journey to self awareness and the level with which one will tolerate outside pressures is different for everyone. But based on his first post, it does seem like he's trying to say that gay men who got married experienced something that gay menw ho chose not to get married could never understand. In truth, most of our experiences as gay men udner pressure are the same, and it's where we were on our own journeys that determined what we chose.

I'll admit that if I had been born two decades earlier, I may have married a woman, being Chinese, the first born son, etc. etc. Perhaps it's the fact that I'm born in this period where there are more visible gay men and gay teens my age that I achieved my steadfastness earlier before I could make the mistake of accepting a marriage despitew my sexual orientation.

So I guess in that sense, he has a point, that I may not understand things he went through, but not every gay men in his time and position got married. That isn't to ignore that each person's experience is unique, but...it does seem to disregard that fact that other men went through what he went through and didn't entangle themselves or remain entangled (though some certainly did, too).

 

[Soilwork]

......................

 

[Soilwork]

Can you at least see to the point that he was handling his demons in the only way his adolecent brain could handle?

Oh wait.. I understand what you mean.

Sure.

But he wanted me to feel sorry for him.

I didn't.

Can you see that?

 

[Eric28]

I have never been married myself, came out to my family when I was 18, and glad I did. I also did some time in the U.S. Army, but didn't really start coming out to my friends and the rest of world until I completed my military service and was in college. I'm not going to pass judgement on someone else who has struggled with their sexuality, because every one's experience is different. I'm just thankful I had a family that supported me, because there are many families who don't. They only love you for what they want you to be and not for who you truly are.

The only reason I bring this up is because my boyfriend was married for a time. His wife is now deceased. He has often told me that he would still be married to her if she was still alive. That may or may not be true, but I know Robert was in conflict with himself, his family, and what he personally believed to be true about his sexuality relative to his spirituality. There's a great deal of negative propaganda out there against us and our children are the brunt of it. Everybody's sexual experience is different too, whether you're gay or not and we all come to terms with it differently. I'm just grateful Robert found the ability to share that side of himself with me.

I'm not going to judge closet gay guys based on whether their married or not or even divorced, because we all make mistakes. I do think we need to encourage a more active role in communicating our message of humanity, gay equality, and openness, especially with adolescent/young adults, because that's were many of the misperceptions and lies begin. We need to try and stop the mistakes before they happen. Robert attempted suicide when he was 14 and nearly died because he believe the lie that was imposed on him. I think the key here is to redirecting our efforts where it belongs, the youth!

 

[JASON0980]

How horrendous!! How can anyone desire such a life?

If I were straight, I think just the thought of living like that would turn me gay!!

i thought i did back then. now the thought of it is kinda, aaahhh!!!!


i would be totally miserable!

 

[Soilwork]

The only reason I bring this up is because my boyfriend was married for a time.

The difference being that Robert married a woman he loved and was attracted to.

Says they may have still been married if she was still alive.

That he was faithful to her in every way while they were married changes everything.

 

[Eric28]

The difference being that Robert married a woman he loved and was attracted to.

Says they may have still been married if she was still alive.

That he was faithful to her in every way while they were married changes everything.

Point duly noted.

 

[dodo2761]

you're right.

I dont' know your personal story and I don't care.

All I care about is men acting like men.

Too many gay people seem to think (and bisexual men are three times more guilty of this, I've seen) that being gay is some kind of license to sneak around behind the backs of the people they're supposed to love and protect. They seem to think that being gay means not having to have accountability for their actions and they seem to think "Oh... it's haaarrrddd to come out" is some kind of excuse to not act like a man.

Don't be like that.

I didnt sneak behind her back-I told her!

 

[Soilwork]

I think I've said about all I need to in this thread.

So this is my last word...

Considering I'm just "Some fucking asshole pornographer from West Hollywood" and a "Fucking bully" and "a jerk", I really don't understand why it's so important for people here to gain my acceptence.

I've had about 20 private messages about this thread.. half supportive (which great... thanks...) and half people sending me their own personal stories and asking for my approval. Why is what I think so important?

And why not post in this thread rather than just to me?

 

[dodo2761]

Well as I made the original post- I never said you were a fucking pornographer from west hollywood- a fucking bully or a jerk- it would have been wrong of me to say those things when I was asking people to stop judging me because of my background- exactly the point I was asking others to understand.
All of our situations are unique- who is anyone else to judge on if our situation is worse or better than anothers- we dont know their situation or the reasons they do what they do.
I in fact have thanked you for your contributions even though I dont necessarily agree with them.

 

[mpdan]

I don't think anyone feels that seeking acceptance is important on this matter. It's just that of 86 posts so far in this thread soilwork has made 20. I for one just feel there has to be a better way to propel the cause of gay rights forward without retorting to calling each other "fucktards"

Soilwork, (if you are out there) with your business connections and 14,000 + posts you are a large persona on these boards. I mean no disrespect, and my question is entirely out of curiosity since many of your posts are memorable, and I'm grabbling with why this topic can be so unsettling, since after all we all make mistakes.

From what I can gather (and I can be wrong), you are (or were) a legally married Canadian citizen who has cohabitated with more than one man and is currently living in LA with a lover. On another thread I initiated you explained that breaking up was hard to do, and that the division of assets resulted in a lot of arguments to say the least....

How did you do it? How is anyone able to navigate that grey area when a relationship is ending and a new one begins without some sort of compromise to your principles. Yes, I agree that the truth is of utmost importance; but the truth can hurt, and sometimes one can't see the truth when it staring you in the face. How do you click the mind off when you get feelings for another, wait, end the current relationship - then start the new one.

Yes I hurt my wife. Yes I stole a perfect hetro life from my kids which literally included a white picket fence. And yes I attempted to end my life as a result of thoughts in my head - and I couldn't even to that right (talk about a fucktard!) But here I am, just trying to get though life while scorned by both the hetro and Gay community.

 

[dodo2761]

obviously very angry man

 

[1gayguy]

Jas, I don't think anyone is looking for you approval or acceptance (uness they came right out and asked for it) I think what they are trying to do is get you to see that there are many different circumstances that might not fit into your belief of what's right or wrong.
The only thing I found myself questioning this morning was this. What makes you the one to decide what makes a man a man? By what authority deems your opinion to be the one that decides this? It's the sweeping generalizations you made that got folks dander up.
Obviously, you were bothered when people pm'd you, calling you an "asshole pornographer from West Hollywood" or you wouldn't have mentioned it. What you've done is the same sort of name calling and you wonder why people get upset. This where a little empathy can come into play. I know you have it, I've seen it.
I still say that unless you've lived the person's life, you've no right to pass judgement on their character, morality, masculinity or any other aspect of how they live or have lived their life.
If you want to pass judgement on me, read my blog. Pretty much my whole life is there. Read it then judge.

 

[Soilwork]

obviously very angry man

I'd say from reading your posts in this thread that there's plenty of that going around.

Don't wanna be judged? Don't judge me. (I don't even mean that.. judge me all you want, but don't be surprised when it comes back to you)

I don't CARE if people judge me.

In case you hadn't realized it, the hatred of other people is like Red Bull to me.

What I find so funny about threads like this is that it starts with this big come-on and rallying cry of "Let's show those guys!!" and a "let's fight from our corner!!"-type 'us-against-them' tone.


By the next day, I'm getting weepy PMs from people telling me that they value my opinion so much and they want me to understand them. Hey, I'm all about the big tent... but if you start out your thread saying you want a fight... hey... I happen to like a good fight. Don't pick one if you can't handle it.

 

[dodo2761]

I do value your opinion and your point of view- I dont have to agree with it- I also dont need to insult someone to argue my case.

 

[dodo2761]

Further to that- Its when we have to be abusive and insulting that someone is usually judged to have lost the argument.

 

[dodo2761]

In all candor, I'm still confused about what the issue was that spawned this thread.

The thread alluded to in the opening post wasn't about gay or bi-married men being married, it was about the ethics of deceiving one's spouse in order to play around on the side to get a little nooky while simultaneously leading the other partner on to believe you were being sexually monogamous.

That's been one of the admirable features of the gay/bisexual men who have posted in this thread that made them admirable, were those who said that even when married they met their obligations and didn't fool around on their wives, or had been open with their wives about what they were doing. That's integrity. Abusing the trust and being deceptive is not a display of integrity.

So, I still don't see what's defensible about that type of deception, regardless of the sexual orientation or sexual genders of the people involved.

No it wasnt- it was about being judged because of the choices we made and why we made them- the consequences of those choices and just because we made those choices its ok to slag us off.

 

[winterknight]

If you don't know you're attracted to men until later, maybe you're just one of those poor fools with virtually no sex drive.

It's possible that someone like this might use "I thought I was straight" as a shorthand for "Despite not really being interested in sex at all, I assumed I was straight because it's kinda the default option." I know, because this was me until about twenty.

I'm with you on why someone like this would get married in the first place, though.