Undying love for my best friend...please read(long

[jspk]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

for what it worths. having a friend is better than not having one, even for a jerk like him. who know what the future bring. you found closure, so there's no reason to talk/hang out with him once in a while. be an acquaintance. life is too short to keep hating someone and have it with you.

btw go to the wedding to have fun. and don't ever be a best man, unless you're really close to someone. i rather pay someone to replace me to be someone's best man. too much work.

 

[rareboy]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

^ the preceding post indicates a lack of understanding of the dynamics of the situation.

In most cases, having a friend is a good thing. But a friend would sacrifice anything for a friend. Andrew has never been a friend, only an emotional and financial vampire.

 

[G-Lexington]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

I've observed this story unfold off and on since signing on to JUB, and haven't really weighed in. And I feel silly doing so now, but I'll toss in my two cents about two topics.

First off, I often hear and read about people wanting "closure". What they quite often mean is "I want this entire situation to end in a way that's agreeable to me." And, since we're never completely in charge of relationships, quite often, situations DON'T end in a way that is necessarily agreeable to us. That guy never says he's sorry, the "last" conversation gives us more questions than answers, you don't shake hands and agree to disagree.

Judging from what I've read about this guy, you aren't going to get the "closure" you want from this guy. So make your own closure. End it on a positive note - send him a nice wedding gift with a "best of luck" card, and stop talking to him already.

Secondly, and perhaps a tad less importantly, we just got a convertible and we love it. Even in our crappy climate.

Lex

 

[nihilis]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

That guy never says he's sorry, the "last" conversation gives us more questions than answers, you don't shake hands and agree to disagree.

True, but sometimes you need to say what's on your mind, just so you know that no matter what happens, the other person's heard you. As long as you don't go into these things with any expectations, it can be quite liberating to tell someone off. That's closure as far as I'm concerned.

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

As I was getting ready for work today, Andrew called. I picked up. He talked a little and said that I sounded angry still. I said Im not...I asked him if him and his girl and his best man are getting excited about his wedding..he goes yeah but you dont seem to be...With as much strenght as possible I came up with a meek "Sure I am.."

He said our friendship sucks, and we dont speak and he feels I could let months go by without speaking to him. Admittedly I was a little groggy and stumbling for the shower so I wasnt really altogether while speaking to him.

I asked him about work and the job he was supposed to get last week..he said he is waiting until today to findd out. So I asked him what he has been doing..he said hiking, hanging out, chillin...thats great Im thinking.

There is a part of me thats bitter to be honest..and I dont know if it is fair to think this..but he tells me all this shit hes doing..and it gets me mad. Mad because Im working my ass off to rebuild what he helped destroy and hes off lounging in Vegas. Sometimes I think how he has the nerve to tell me that Vegas is a cool place and if I ever think of coming back..I want to say to him.."of course it's a cool place you fucking dick, 95% of the time you have been out there you have not worked for shit...and as always people bail your sorry fucking ass out, thus stripping you of all responsibility..."

I asked him about his best man and he said I should have known all along that he was picking someone else, because he told me this 6 months ago...I was like ok cool...so then why did you make that comment to me last week that you regret the decision of who you picked for a best man?

Then he said, "I dont know why you are still mad, I have moved on from things.."

I go, "you have moved on from things? what was there for you to move on from?? I got the shit end of everything andrew..you have dealt with nothing, exactly what was there for you to move on from????"

He goes he is 90% to blame for everything and that he has said sorry and said he would get on his knees and beg my forgiveness...I told him you apologized, I accepted..but I dont know how long it will take for me to forget and get over things...

He then went on to say, even if he has a million dollars and paid me back everything that I probably still would be mad. I said, "Andrew, if you had a million dollars, the last thing you would think to do is pay me off what you owe me..you are too much about yourself, and you are all you think about.."

I told him I had to go to work and say goodbye...

I went to work and vented to Latoya, and while she calmed me down a bit, she also said if I want any type of friendship with him, it might not be best to skip the wedding. I told her I'm going to the church and thats it. She also said that he has no right to put a timeline on how long it takes me to get over some things, that is a decision he doesn''t get to control.

I have not spoken to him since this morning...I have a feeling if I didnt have work and I spoke to him that the conversation would have ended up worse and with me not going to his wedding at all.

~~~~~Lost~~~P.S. As I type this I'm getting all pissed again. I have a feeling our face to face talk will not go so well in 2 weeks.

 

[nihilis]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

There is a part of me thats bitter to be honest..

I'd be concerned if you weren't. Usually one sided relationships leave the person doing all the giving a little bitter, or a lot bitter.

I want to say to hi

m.."of course it's a cool place you fucking dick, 95% of the time you have been out there you have not worked for shit...and as always people bail your sorry fucking ass out, thus stripping you of all responsibility..."

I think you need to say this to him. Seriously. If I had a friend who was fucking around all day and crying to me when things got tough, that's exactly what I'd say. Do it. Do it now.

I asked him about his best man and he said I should have known all along that he was picking someone else, because he told me this 6 months ago...I was like ok cool...so then why did you make that comment to me last week that you regret the decision of who you picked for a best man?

If you two are best friends and he has no brother or cousin to speak of, then you should have been asked. Plain and simple. There are no two ways about it. He didn't even ask you to be an usher. That should tell you how high you rank on his radar. Fuck him.

He goes he is 90% to blame for everything and that he has said sorry and said he would get on his knees and beg my forgiveness...I told him you apologized, I accepted..but I dont know how long it will take for me to forget and get over things.

Standard "keep the sucker on the line" bullshit.

I went to work and vented to Latoya, and while she calmed me down a bit, she also said if I want any type of friendship with him, it might not be best to skip the wedding.

Brian, you have no sort of friendship with him anyway. In your deepest of hearts you know this.

What is the merit here? What is the value? What is the thing that he's giving you that's so amazing that you can't lose his friendship? I'd hazard a guess that the answer is nothing. You have fantasies, dreams, alternate realities of what's going on in your head. You've screamed, begged, and confessed everything to this asshole and he's made NO effort to make amends, let alone change. When you have that last relationship saving conversation and it does nothing to change things, then it's time to mourn and move on. If there was any love there, you wouldn't need to keep saying the same things over and over again to him.

I've seen pictures of you when you had them on here. You're a beautiful guy. You seem to be so full of love and compassion, and you are worth so much more than this. Bury this. You've said all you need to, all you can. Cut it off from him now. The only way you're going to know how he really feels is if he has to make all the effort to earn back your trust and forgiveness, and even now you're making it easy for him. He'll never change if you don't let him go. He may never change, and at the very least you'll come out of this with your wallet intact and some peace of mind.

Believe me, I'm speaking from experience here. Let it go, don't even go to the wedding.

Fuck.

Him.

 

[Eagle653]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

Thanks for the updates, Brian.

Man, Andrew is a mess at this point. I can't believe he's really going to get married, but, thankfully that's not your problem, either. Fortunately, you have him pegged right and seem to be able to give him shit when he needs it.

I think I speak for everyone when I tell you we're waiting to see if you go to the wedding and, if so, how your conversation goes.

Good luck with it all--and drive your new car in good health!

 

[texan_slant]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

~~~~~Lost~~~P.S. As I type this I'm getting all pissed again. I have a feeling our face to face talk will not go so well in 2 weeks.

Brian - The fact that you are planning on attending the church wedding shows a lot of integrity. Though you anticipate that your face-to-face won't "go so well", I sense that you know the importance of it in your road to recovery, and in essence, will prob be freeing. Take care!

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

Hey again. I had thought to try and get rest before I posted this. My blood is boiling right now and my back is tight and my body is full of tension.

Tonight I went out for coffee with Latoya...nothing big. Got some hot goodness and we just drove around and talked. Even walked in the park. I needed to be out tonight.

I came home and as soon as I enter the phone rings. The number is different but the area code is the same..(702)..that means Vegas.

I picked it up. It was Andrew, and mind you the first time we have talked since I told him I am not going to the reception...and just to the church.


I asked him what he is up to, and he goes just living everyday like it's my last...I was like um ok?? ODD MUCH?

I should have asked him if hes planning to kill himself, but my wit wasnt with me at the time, I was tense.

He started off in a confrontational manner, asking me why I am not going to the reception.

Right off the bat, I got tense and immediately thought, "Well Bri, this is IT, things bout to blow up right now and why even worry bout the wedding cuz you prolly wont be going..."

I told him because it is just not comfortable to me. I think it is best that way.

He said that his mother in law will be upset, and that I told him about this too late and that she will lose money. I said what do you care? This is a woman you hate...and he said well she will think of you bad...I go I dont give a fuck.

He kept asking why and why...and why. I told him that I am hurt by a few things, and I'm not quite over our past. He said he is sorry about that and there is nothing he can do but apologize for it, which he has done many times.

I told him I am not asking him to apologize, because he has done that already and I have accepted it. It's the forgetting I seem to have a problem with.

He said that he feels there is nothing more that he can do, and he feels like he doesnt want to call me anymore because I hold it over his head all the time.

I told him I am being the better person or trying to be. I told him Im going to his wedding so I can honor the good parts of our friendship. I told him I have forgiven him. I told him I am good at cold turkey, cutting people out of my life that cause me pain so consider it something good that I have not done that with you.

I told him that he hurt me so bad and he doesnt see that. I told him that never once did bother to even send me 20 or 50 or 100 bucks...a far cry from what he owes me, but it would have told me he still thought about me and what he did to me...but no...

I told him that I am bitter that he calls me while I am getting ready for work telling me about his fun times...and Im working saving every penny I wasted on him and trying to right my life...I told him Im bitter that you seem to always be bailed out at the last minute by something or someone...He said if I came out there to Vegas he is sure our friendship would be better..I told him Andrew...fuck that, Vegas was the worst thing to happen to me...and your only happy about being there because you have barely worked out there yet...

He said even if he had the money or won a million dollars, and he paid me back, that I would still be angry...I go I would love YOUR money right about now...in fact I'd love it with interest too...I said I bet you dont even know how much you owe me...he goes I dont.

I told him he took advantage of my friendship. I said he wouldnt have done that to any of his friends because he has too much respect for them and so little for me...and he goes yeah I think I had more respect for my other friends...I go your damn right you did.

He told me that he hopes Im ready to live with the choice of throwing our friendship away. I go no Andrew, I hope you are. You took the most rare..the best friend, the best friendship you ever had or will have and you ruined it. He goes, you are right I will never find another friend like you. I go your damn right.

I go you also hurt me when you said 6 months ago that you really want me as your best man but you dont want to rock the boat so you picked someone else...I told him that hurt...

I go Im taking Latoya to the church part and we will be glad to see you on your special day...he goes PLEASE DONT EVEN BOTHER TO BRING LATOYA, and added that she probably wants to come just to see the person who messed with you.

I go no Andrw, she doesnt want to come there to see you, she wants to come there to be there for me...she knows how hard this has all been for me.

He said I find it wrong that you told Latoya our business and that I have replaced his friendship with hers...I said WTF am I supposed to do? Sit her and pine away for you? Like the second coming of Jesus??

He said he wishes I could be in his head because as angry as he is, he still thinks of me as a best friend and someone special...he said he takes the blame for all that went wrong and he said by asking me for money he knew he was fucking with something good..

I asked him why he did it?? WHY? He said because he needed money at the time...I go Andrew not only am I mad because you used me, but even after you told me you did, you continually took adavantage of my niceness and my friendship to ask for more money.

In my opinion he took advantage of the fac that I was in love with him...and believe me...long before I told him...he already fucking knew...and in some odd way he loved it and knew there was nothing I wouldnt do for him.

He said he hopes to see me when he comes in...and to be honest I dont even know...my blood is still going at this point. I did tell Latoya and she said if he doesnt want her there, she wont go, because she doesnt want to mess with his special day. She told me to tell him CONGRATS anyway.

I do feel a tiny bit guilty because I truly am angry about this and dont know when Ill be over it. She said its ok for me not to be put a time line of when Im gunna get over it, because I'm human..it might take a few days..it might be after the wedding or it might be never. She also said your angry about it now, as oopsed to then, because I am just starting to actually deal with it.

Andrew told me that he feels that if he cant get the friendship we had back, he feels its not even worth being friends anymore...as he longs for the closeness we once had..hesaid he thinks he did himself in with using me...and I added "your lies" also. I told him I'll see how it goes...and that I had to go because I was too full of tension....

~~~~~~~~Lost~~~~~~~~

 

[beatleshead]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

Ive followed this thing for a long time...and i never wanted to post cos its so delicate. but theres one thing that made me wanna post.

Im not gonna tell you who and what i agree with. Andrew is a bonafide asshole. But Please I beg of you, try to see him when he comes through. talk face to face. i feel like you guys can make out still friends. and if it doesnt at least you know you got closure.

I think its an emotional disaster to go to a wedding of someone you have unresolved issues with. at least when you meet face to face you can empty those out.

but even if you dont see em, i think you should go to the wedding out of respect(please dont bite my head off with that word lol). theres smoke where theres fire. Why would a guy who has no respect for you want you to go to his wedding? he cares for you more than his selfish actions let on. i think. im probably completely wrong.

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

I have to admit he got to me tonight. I felt down and depressed and cried...in the midst of my crying, about a half hour later he called...and asked "so how do you feel now after the phone call?"

At first it sounded to me like he wanted me to get upset by the phone call...he said he was down and this doesnt feel right and he wishes things were better.

He is asking me nice things now about Latoya and what I been up to and it feels so patronizing...hes getting silence for these questions, as I do not know what to fucking say.

He asked me if I wanted him to go with me to therapy when he gets in to NYC..

I am typing this as we speak...I am so bothered by him tonight. I think I am going to want to speak to him face to face to find some closure, or at the very least say what I need to say...and I will see from there how going to the church feels.

I told Latoya she has been cowardly uninvited to the wedding...I insisted she should go anyway but she said no, "there is no telling what crazy will do.."

She then said I should give him one of those wedding money type envelopes, the thin ones with the flap to hold the money and I should write "this is where the money for your wedding would have gone if you didnt con me out of all mine"...

Anyway, thats it, hes on speaker right now, saying it hurts that he cant talk to me like we used to...whatever...

~~~~~~~~~~~Lost~~~~~~~~~

 

[beatleshead]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

umm...i think that in your dissilusionment of him...which you have every right to be...be careful your not being TOO cynical cos you might miss things that might be truthful. To me it sounds like everything he says you interpret as, "yeah right" h yeah, SURe andrew". iim not saying to do backflips when ever he says sorry or i wanna stay friends...but keep a little objectivity.

Speaking from the asshole club...i was the asshole in this kind of situation...and with all the things that I did to that person i knew that in the depth of it i loved him...and though i never really got to say sorry for that, If i had the chance I would mean sorry in the highest form that i could think of. I would be sorry from the bottom of my heart.

So yeah. thats all. Hope you feel better.

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

Battle I am not perfect. I am also not holding this over his head. He said he was sorry 4 years ago and I did forgive him and I really do..I would want someone to forgive me if I wronged them...but you also at the same time do not get to dictate how long it takes that wronged perso to get over it. I really DO wish I can snap my finger s and get over it...I would love to have the friendship we had back, well half of it...Im really trying to be strong...Im a little cynical sometimes as is he...please dont mistake m e for this holier than thou person who is holding it over his head...I know Im not perfect in anyway..but at the same time I know I would never do to him what he did to me...I feel a tad better...

I have been up all night...Still confused a little, but as the sun rises, it just reminds me this world dont stop for me or anyone else, especially those that sit around feeling sorry for themselves.
~~~~~Lost~~~~

 

[rareboy]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

Well,

You say you're looking for closure, but I think you're already just about there. What exactly is the closure you're looking for?

You definitely seem to be able to see things more clearly now, though and hopefully realize that Andy is toxic.

It is the height of bad manners to tell a guest that they cannot bring someone to an event. Most people would then decline to attend, period. For Latoya's sake, you should make it clear that she is your friend now and that you won't have her treated this badly. I think that if you took this stand, it actually would be closure on this shabby mockery of friendship you have been enduring for the past few years.

By the way, the reason that Andy wants you at the reception is to see your hurt and pain on public display. Pure and simple. What a crock of shit about his mother in law losing money. Manipulation through guilt. He knows that now that he's lost your friendship and ability to fund his fun and games, and that he will be losing touch with you entirely after the wedding, he will be able to punish you with a lavish display of attention to his 'new' bride.

He's the kind of person who will probably be telling guests at the wedding that you were madly in love with him and that you've never gotten over him although he never has encouraged you.

In short, expect him to be cruel. It is the way these guys get closure. Eventually, the only closure he'll accept for you is your total defeat. You becoming healthy and emotionally stronger will not be acceptable.

I see he has also gone from everything being his fault to 90%.
Eventually it will not be his fault at all.

Your anger at this point is a good thing. After the anger and the hurt will eventually come the scar tissue of indifference to him and the realization that life has moved on and you can be happy again.

You know that I still think it is a mistake to be talking to him all the time on the phone, to attend his wedding and to see him alone if he comes to New York ( I still doubt he will).

The guy is evil personified.

 

[Telstra]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

hey Lost, this is like soap opera between you and Andrew.

Are you keeping a diary and just transfers your diary to the forum ?

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

Testra no...This is sort of my diary about this whole situation, where I come to vent, my own little private spot where I can say what I feel and what I am going through. I dont mean for this to be entertainment and quite a few of you guys are assuredly sick of my little drama going on, but I dont know where else to post this.

Thanks for all the advice guys...I woke up today thinking last night was a dream...in fact I had an odd dream...

I was getting on a bus with Latoya heading somewhere...and I tried to pay to get on with a metrocard and I couldnt seem to get it right..Latoya laughed and told me to get on the bus...and it was crowded..so crowded that we got separated..and she was standing in the back and I was in the front by the driver standing...for some reason when the bus took off I got an eery feeling..between me and Latoya was this guy wearing earphone and after looking back and forth at him a few times thinking he was odd, the guy stood up and screamed IM SORRY and blew himself up...only getting blood on the person behind and in front of him...Latoya and I got off the bus and I asked if there was blood on me and she laughed and said no but you you should see the guy that was behind the him...the bus left and the guy who killed himself was alive and the bus had new passengers laughing and having a good time...and I recall thinking "Those people don't know what they are in for.." Then I woke up.

My friend who does dream analysis says this was about Andrew and him apologizing for the destruction he causes and how he keeps doing it to people and how Latoya was there helping me get through it...

But I digress, I just called Latoya to see if she wanted to go out today and go shopping, I need to not be sitting home today.

I love you all for giving me the advice you do..Im stronger because of it.

RARE-I dont look to get closure by seeing him face to face and talking, but I definitely would love to tell him what I need to tell him, and I dont mean tell him off. Everytime I speak to him I feel like Im just about saying all I need but not quite. I still dont think he sees my point.

Andrew told me he would rather have me at the reception than be at the church, because that was more important to him...and I thought to myself..WHY? And the answer I came up with is that in some odd way he wants me to suffer, suffer through the pictures, the speeches, the dances..he knows I will be uncomfortable and alone...So I told him NO, I wont be doing that.

Its the same reasoning he called me back after last night and asked "so how do you feel now?" He knew fully how I was going to feel and banked on me saying I was down and depressed last night.

~~~~Lost~~~~

 

[texan_slant]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

In this life - there is a lot to be said about forgiveness. You can always forgive, but you can never *forget*. Moving forward, there is the reality that you will never forget what happened - even if it hurts like hell.

It's all about how you move forward with that you carry - and 'somehow' make yourself an even better person than you already - because of it. So far, you have done this. I am certain you will know exactly what to do when you meet Andy face-to-face.

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

Well spent the whole day out with my freind Latoya and we just went to Bed Bath and Beyond, shopped and talked here and there...we went to the beach and chilled on a bench..was quiet and still..I told her I was still down and she said it will be hard, which I knew...it is just hard.

I told her I know that I HAVE to let go of this so it doesnt eat me alive. For my sake. I told her even if I kinda put him using me behind me that having the same friendship is near impossible again...so what I really need to do is just try and let go of it.

And he told me that will be easier said that done...and I wholeheartedly agreed.

~~~~Lost~~~~

 

[nihilis]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

this life - there is a lot to be said about forgiveness. You can always forgive, but you can never *forget*.

There's the lesson. Forgiveness is letting go of past hurt, pain, and suffering that someone else caused you. That does not mean, however, that whoever hurts you automatically gets a free pass back into your life. You can love someone, pray for them, and care for them from afar. You've already gone down this forgiveness road with Andy once, and look where it got you.

It's my feeling that you've spelled things out as clearly as you can, and at this point the burden of proof is not on you regarding your friendship and how meaningful it is. You've done all you can. He spews words constantly saying he feels this or that, but ask yourself this: how much action is backing up the words he's spewing out at you? How much is he doing to put his money where his mouth is and prove to you that a) he values your friendship and b) he's sorry? From what you've said, there's nothing of the sort there. You said yourself he doesn't even know how much he owes you for money.

There is no merit here Brian. The anger you feel is your outward reflection of this realization. You have done nothing wrong but try to fix a friendship. Until and unless he takes specific action to prove his feelings for you, you need to cut it off. You're worth more than this. I'd argue it's going to take months, years, or even a lifetime for him to learn what true love and friendship is. Don't wait around with him, you have your own happiness to pursue.

Look at it this way, by going through this with him, you met Latoya, a real friend, and now have someone in your life that you can count on. Be thankful for the small gifts in the face of great suffering and move on. Neither one of you should go to either the church or the wedding. Go out that day and do something fun instead, something that's valuable to you both. If Andy comes around someday, well, then that's that, but you owe him nothing right now. Besides, I'm sure there'll be plenty more weddings in his future to attend should you ever patch things up. But for now, at least from this perspective, you're better off without him. Good luck kiddo, and try to find some peace and happiness. It's been a long ride and you really deserve a break.

 

[rareboy]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(

I told her I know that I HAVE to let go of this so it doesnt eat me alive. For my sake. I told her even if I kinda put him using me behind me that having the same friendship is near impossible again...so what I really need to do is just try and let go of it.

Just keep repeating this until you're sick of the sound of it.

It has gone on way too long. And Andy can still play you like a fiddle.

The day that you finally decide that you just aren't picking up the phone to talk to him anymore, period....is the day that you will finally have closure. Until then, it is just like picking at a scab; the wound never heals and only becomes more and more putrid.

If you go to the wedding, without Latoya in tow, and are terribly hurt and devastated and feel ill treated, I don't think there will be a lot of sympathy or understanding from your loyal readers.

The great majority of us think you should move on and find joy in what you have and could have, rather than wallowing in the misery of what you never, ever had.

And trust me. You do not ever want this monster in your life again.