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What is a 'gay man?', an article I'm writing

Saying you're "moist" is very funny if said by a gay guy in a self-mocking way. :)

Saying you're moist is a face palm if you think it's masculine in any way. Straight guys talk about "getting hard" "getting wood" "shooting loads".

If you think your straight friends are talking about getting moist, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you.

Are straight/gay men supposed to follow rigid rules?

Some of my straight friends use the "moist" line. We know each other pretty well so don't even try the "they must be gay" or in denial argument...
 
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Thank you! Biscuit?
 
And yes that's me in my avatar. Even though everyone thinks I'm a nelly queen because of my ideas.

Just curious. Are you doing the fingerspelling letter 'D' in your avatar? If so, you're doing it incorrectly. The palm faces 'out', not 'sideways'.
 
Just curious. Are you doing the fingerspelling letter 'D' in your avatar? If so, you're doing it incorrectly. The palm faces 'out', not 'sideways'.

I was spelling the 'b' in JUB.

That photo is from the JUB meet in Las Vegas. FrankFrank was doing the J, and Sausy was doing the U, if I recall correctly. We were not trying to do ASL or anything--especially since you can't capture the movement of an ASL 'j' in a photo.

We had a grand old time. We weren't swishing down the Strip in feather boas, as some people here think I'm portraying all gays as ("divas", they accuse me of implying).

The gayest thing we probably did was pose together (with a 4th guy--Orion--who has since left) under the Four Queens Casino marquee! It was a little self-deprecating humor, laughing and at the same time toasting to our shared gayness.

Something that it seems the uptight people in this thread would never do, because they're indistinguishable from straight guys. :confused:

I think we had a lot of fun together. (!) :gogirl:
 
EDIT: Astonishing that someone would troll for years on end and accumulate thousands of posts, but there it fucking is with you. I'm hoping that's it, because otherwise you have genuine psychological problems.

Kevbo and Poguey hosted a JUB meet in Minneapolis just this spring. My bf and I helped them out by hosting a welcome dinner the first night of the meet. I spent all day (and a lot of money) making regular and vegan appetizers and vegan (Ribollito) and regular (chicken with olives and tomatoes) entrees. We showcased everything on our finest china, silverware, and crystal in our cozy little house. And all the JUBbers brought something to share. It was a wonderful evening.

In fact, my gallery here is filled with pictures from that night and the rest of the meet. It was a lot of fun!

Why am I telling you this? Because your "you're nothing but a troll" comment doesn't sit well with me.

Yes, I have strong opinions. Yes, I have controversial opinions. Yes, I will strongly debate those opinions. Feel free to continue to debate the issues with me, even on other threads.

But please don't vilify me as some evil troll here to make life miserable for gays.

Maybe I'm wrong on some points, but I am here because I'd like to help people.

Thanks. (*8*) :kiss:
 
I was spelling the 'b' in JUB.

That photo is from the JUB meet in Las Vegas. FrankFrank was doing the J, and Sausy was doing the U, if I recall correctly. We were not trying to do ASL or anything

Gotcha. For future reference, in case it ever comes up:

attachment.php
 
Gotcha. For future reference, in case it ever comes up:

attachment.php

Ah, memories. Yes, I dated a Deaf (capital-D, if you know what I mean :) ) man for 2 years and took ASL lessons just for him.
 
You have to have female two-spirit energy or the gay thing makes no sense and just doesn't work. Sorry! That's just all there is to it. And it's not 'offensive' to be called more of a woman than straight men. You're a man too, just never as purely manly as straight men. *sigh*

... Ah, now I remember you. Making strange assertions and claiming fact without any actual fact to back you up. Yeah going to continue not taking you seriously.

You haven't said anything about my point that most guys here are exaggerating my description of gay men beyond recognition. I've never called all gay men divas, for example.

If a single person gets the wrong idea about your post you can put it down to reading comprehension, however if several people aren't getting your point then maybe its a problem with the signal NOT the reception.

really. In real life, I have lots of gay friends who mock their own feminine side in a self-deprecating way.

But god forbid a JUBber ever admit that.

Talk about a complete lack of self acceptance.

Saying you're "moist" is very funny if said by a gay guy in a self-mocking way. :)

Saying you're moist is a face palm if you think it's masculine in any way. Straight guys talk about "getting hard" "getting wood" "shooting loads".

If you think your straight friends are talking about getting moist, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you.

So JUBbers don't mock their feminine side in a self-deprecating way, however when someone does make a joke about it you have a go at them? I don't udnerstand. Isn't that what you want people to do? Make jokes that people would consider feminine? However I'm going to bring up the point that using the word 'moist' doesn't denote masculine or feminine, nor sexuality. It is a word used for a light hearted joke.

You also seem to have a very stereotypical view of a straight guy. This is priobably due to you living your life in the closet for so long, you've had this perfect ideal fo a straight man in your head to attain so you too can pass off as guy that you've completely blinded yourself to the diversity of masculinity. Yes there are people who think that you can only truely be 'masculine' by being what you've got in your head, but thats a certain group of people.

Other cultures, societies or even people who live in the street over from you can have a completely different definition of masculinity. Masculinity and Feminiity are social constructs that are not ridgid and set in stone, the traits you have said are indicitive of masculinity and homosexuality are flimsy. In different social circles these criteria for manhood wont stand, so you can't really force your ideals on other people, what you think of as feminine another, perfectly straight male, will have been brought up with it being completely fine for a straight, masculine male, to participate in.

You can only judge people within your own social circle, or culture, with this criteria, not the world at large.

I hope you come to the same acceptance some day, rather than remaining in denial.

And then we come to whats really getting up peoples craw. You telling them who they are and how to live there lives. Telling people that they have effeminate traits, telling them that they ride motor bikes to hide their feminine side and telling them that if they don't agree with you they're in denial. Shouldn't have to say this but; people don't like strangers telling them who they are. fine, you can make a judement, but when someone corrects you its very rude and annoying for you to then turn around and say "Oh no, your wrong, I'm right." Thats what people seem to be hearing from you, and I'm sure you can see how that can rile people up.
 
So JUBbers don't mock their feminine side in a self-deprecating way, however when someone does make a joke about it you have a go at them?

Yeah, see that's just baffling me.

That Olivia Newton John joke was like... three years ago. I can't really remember the context but anyone who has a basic grasp of english can tell that it was supposed to be funny. I'm not uptight about having harder and softer sides, but I don't thin they're "masculine" or "feminine." They're just parts of me.

Getting in my face and telling me why I am the way I am (when he's never met me and probably never will) is just strange. And kinda creepy.

It reminds me of the time I was at a party when a girl told me that my being gay was "interesting" and then she told me that it was because I was looking for missing pieces of my masculinity.
 
Why am I telling you this? Because your "you're nothing but a troll" comment doesn't sit well with me.

Shockingly, I don't really care. You don't get to say that we're all in denial and that you know us better than we know ourselves without getting your own motives called out. So I will insist that you are a troll in denial.

Astonishing, astonishing arrogance and ego on you. Really singular.

Yes, I have strong opinions. Yes, I have controversial opinions. Yes, I will strongly debate those opinions. Feel free to continue to debate the issues with me, even on other threads.

But please don't vilify me as some evil troll here to make life miserable for gays.

Please don't misapprehend my stance. I am past debating you, because I don't debate people who refuse to actually listen to what someone else is telling them, particularly when those people don't know the full facts. yet insist they do.

So I'll vilify you because your arrogance and bigotry towards people, regardless of their sexuality, is a dangerous thing. And if you continue to insist that you know me or my friends better than I know myself, I'm going to respond in kind about what I feel are issues with you and your trolling, as well as the people who choose to associate with you.
 
Why's everyone in such a hissy fit?
If us gay guys are feminine we're feminine.
And by that I mean sensitive,compassionate, emotional and oh....naturally caring.
Granted a few of us in addition display physical traits that one associates with women.
While the reaminig actually couldn't care less.

But why button up and pretend we are all aggressive,violent, uncaring and naturally gross.
When in point of fact we're not ?

I'll say wear all your virtues with pride and don't genderize it.
And eerrr don't hiss, its ungentlemanly :p
 
Well I guess it's true. Ignorance is like a disease.

If nothing else this thread is really enlightening and shows how some people think and view gays. I can understand why some feel the way they do. God knows what being in the closet does to you for so long. Some of us are fortunate enough to never even have to be in that musty ass closet or not for very long at least. Some of us are able to see more of the world and those around us and get firsthand experience what gays are like whether they be friends, associates, or lovers.

Not all of us buy into the stereotypical media. Though it's fun to poke fun at it.

Oh yeah and not ALL of us pretend to be aggressively violent. I don't think anyone even mentioned to be that way in this thread.

I'll pay extra attention to gay places now. Hell maybe it's a good idea to ask ourselves from time to time to ask ourselves "What is being gay" to give ourselves a reality check so we don't fall to the damned stereotypes.

No one said there was anything wrong with being gay. People have defined it differently and claimed that their way is just and right. This thread just reminds me how sad it is though that at my Youth Center the only thing they fucking preached was AIDS scare tactics and dressing up in drag.

If stereotyping not only a community but a gender is that damaging. Than that place needs some serious changes. And I'm glad I don't go there anymore.
 
So this is Generalizations Week.

Again with the "generalizations" and "stereotyping" buullshit. Straight men on average are clearly more masculine than gay men. This is a fact. Anyone with two eyes and a working brain can realize that. It doesen'1t mean that each and every single straight man is vastly more masculine than each and every single gay man. It means that, on average, straight men are more masculine. Do you know what the word "average" means? It means that the largest majority of straight men score higher on masculinity than the majority of gay men. This doesen't make straight men better or superior than gay men; it makes them different. There is nothing wrong with being effeminate. It is you guys who think that there is. When I say that gay men are on average less masculine, I am not making a value-judgement: I am simply making a statement of fact. I am not saying that it is a bad thing or that gay men are inferior kkkkkkkk.
 
^So when are you going to come out and drop the "curious" tag mary?

Your BS is just mundane now, try another tactic.

The problem with a lot of gay men - and people in general - is that they go by that which makes them feel good and not what the evidence and logic says; ergo, rational debates don't work with them. It is the same when I am debating creationists about evolution...

Just look at how angry and personal you are in your reply to me just because I pointed out some facts based on the evidence about the link between male homosexuality and effeminacy. You don't want to hear it, hence, making ad hominem attacks on me is your way of trying to discredit me instead of attacking my ideas with reason and evidence. Shooting the messenger is always more satisfying.
 
and not what the evidence and logic says

Evidence and logic says that effeminate behavior is a negative according to the patriarchal misogynistic society no one denies exists.
 
The problem with a lot of gay men - and people in general - is that they go by that which makes them feel good and not what the evidence and logic says; ergo, rational debates don't work with them. It is the same when I am debating creationists about evolution...

Just look at how angry and personal you are in your reply to me just because I pointed out some facts based on the evidence about the link between male homosexuality and effeminacy. You don't want to hear it, hence, making ad hominem attacks on me is your way of trying to discredit me instead of attacking my ideas with reason and evidence. Shooting the messenger is always more satisfying.


You have merely offered us your personal opinion. I respect your right to speak to your experiences. Your opinion does not translate into verifiable fact. Unless you are able to offer us a link to credible research that supports your opinion, your views remain your very personal opinion and is duly noted as such. Nothing more.

My gay acquaintances, and bed mates are always masculine. But they never spit, nor curse, nor chew tobacco to prove their masculinity. I am also masculine but never pretend to be a John Wayne clone. In the bed I always fuck. But I also enjoy Opera, and The Ballet. I have no appetite for Lady Gaga, or Madonna.

Am I a dissenter? Should I resign my gay club membership for failing to live up to the stereotype. Hold on - the ballet, and the opera are definite give a ways.
 
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