What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

[TX-Beau]

Of course. She's gone all in on being a martyr for social cons. She's trying to keep her name in the news as long as possible to pump up her payday when this is all over.

They've probably already paid her, this is a set-up to get a case in the courts.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

The son will not be charged or held in contempt, since the office is now in compliance with the order.

The judge made the same offer to her (allowing her to refuse herself as long as her deputies complied) but she chose jail instead.

Kind of pisses me off the judge made this an option for her.

 

[hotatlboi]

They've probably already paid her, this is a set-up to get a case in the courts.

There is no case, she's already exhausted her legal options pretty much.

At this point its all theater for her ghostwritten book and right wing lecture/radio/TV circuit. $$$

 

[TX-Beau]

There is no case, she's already exhausted her legal options pretty much.

At this point its all theater for her ghostwritten book and right wing lecture/radio/TV circuit. $$$

You say there's no case, I think there's no case, but that doesn't change the fact they they think they can push that "religious liberty" crap through the courts regarding public officials just like they succeeded in pushing it through the courts with the Hobby Lobby case.

They can't appeal, if there is no legal justification.

 

[Alnitak]

Today i learned that Nepal is much more forward thinking than its Asian neighbours. It had decriminialized homosexuality back in 2007 and the LGBT community are currently campaigning to have gay rights included, when the country's new/ammended constitution is drawn up.

That's been in the works for many years, so if and when it happens.

 

[thewiz]

Her attorneys will dump her like a hot potato when the camera lights shut off. She'll find herself looking for a weekend FOX news commentator's job.

 

[CoolBlue71]

Of course. She's gone all in on being a martyr for social cons. She's trying to keep her name in the news as long as possible to pump up her payday when this is all over.

Who knows for sure? Before all this…Kim Davis was not known. It's PR moves like this which catapult careers to national celebrity. Faux News is ready for her. She'll fit right in.

 

[T-Rexx]

The son will not be charged or held in contempt, since the office is now in compliance with the order.

The judge made the same offer to her (allowing her to refuse herself as long as her deputies complied) but she chose jail instead.

Kind of pisses me off the judge made this an option for her.

I agree. Had Kim Davis accepted the judge's offer, you would have had a situation where your ability to obtain a marriage license in Rowan County would depend on the religious views of the particular clerks available at the time. Nathan Davis is still refusing to issue licenses to gay couples. That's not an acceptable situation, and it would have set a bad precedent. The judge should NOT have made this offer.

It's worth noting, however, that the five (of six) clerks who agreed to sign gay marriage licenses did so only AFTER Kim Davis was jailed. They had to know that they were themselves under threat of incarceration. And we still have a situation where a gay person's ability to obtain a license is dependent on the religious views of the people in the license office. That's sill completely unacceptable.

Davis needs to be removed from office, and her son (and anyone else who refuses to serve the public because of personal prejudice) needs to be fired.

 

[TX-Beau]

The courts can't remove an elected official from office. They can only rule on the cases in front of them. I'm not sure what the procedure is in that county in Kentucky for removing a county clerk, but I suspect that the people who voted for her fairly largely outnumber the people who want her head.

This was entirely predictable, what's more surprising is how few of these problems there actually are.

 

[mightbe]

If I understand correctly, only Kim Davis can't be fired. I don't think her son was elected. I believe he and the other five are merely employees of the office I.e., Davis' office.

 

[T-Rexx]

The courts can't remove an elected official from office. They can only rule on the cases in front of them. I'm not sure what the procedure is in that county in Kentucky for removing a county clerk

The only procedure available for her removal is impeachment by the state legislature, which is not going to happen. Although Davis is a Democrat and the legislature is Republican, she's doing exactly what the Republican Party has been advocating with its "religious freedom" bills.

I don't think that the Kentucky legislature is scheduled to meet again until January. So, a bill to impeach her could not be introduced for another 4 months. Democrats aren't going to impeach her because she's one of their own, and Republicans aren't going to impeach her because she is a poster child for their anti-gay cause.

but I suspect that the people who voted for her fairly largely outnumber the people who want her head.

I haven't seen any polls, but I wouldn't be surprised if she could win reelection at this point. Even Kentucky's Democratic governor opposes gay marriage.

This was entirely predictable, what's more surprising is how few of these problems there actually are.

I agree. There are thousands of counties in the USA issuing marriage licenses. Remarkable that we have only one poster child for the bigots. That's a good sign, I think.

If I understand correctly, only Kim Davis can't be fired. I don't think her son was elected. I believe he and the other five are merely employees of the office I.e., Davis' office.

Presumably, it would be Davis' responsibility to fire her son. There probably are county officials above her who have the ability to fire her son, but that would require that those officials disagree with her position.

 

[T-Rexx]

Good article in Slate about Kim Davis:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/...y_kentucky_clerk_is_a_gift_to_gay_rights.html


Republicans seem to feel Davis illustrates the need for "religious freedom" bills, but the author argues that Davis is a gift to the gay rights movement.

What I doubt Dreher et al. have considered, though, is the extent of the damage Davis has done to the “religious liberty” movement. The crusade for marriage license exemptions is already in danger, as pretty much everybody will associate it, toxically, with Davis.

Davis lays bare the prejudiced, discriminatory beliefs that fuel the “religious liberty” fire. She is the monster conservatives created. And they will not be able to disown her as easily as they would like.

 

[Brian Smith]

Well, my view on it is thus:

For one thing, it doesn't do much for me to loudly wish punishments on her. In fact, the ACLU as well as the four couples who were plaintiffs in the suit requested that she be handled by a fine, rather than incarceration, in the contempt of court charge.

On the other hand, defenders of Kim try to make this about "religious liberty." Other Christians also have religious liberty: Episcopalian and Presbyterian churches, for instance, actually solemnize LGBT marriages. There are many Buddhists in the US who recognize LGBT equality, although I recognize that this is not as common in Mainland China. There are also many non-religious people in the US. The religious liberty of these groups also matters, not just that of Kim Davis.

I am pretty much solidly against Kim Davis.

 

[Alnitak]

The only procedure available for her removal is impeachment by the state legislature, which is not going to happen. Although Davis is a Democrat and the legislature is Republican, she's doing exactly what the Republican Party has been advocating with its "religious freedom" bills.

A person in contempt may be held indefinitely, without due process, because that person controls the terms of his or her imprisonment.

The attorney general is also looking into formal charges, and if convicted, may trigger an automatic removal from office. I'm not sure if this is the case in Kentucky.

Davis must lose the PR battle. The public will be reminded how many marriages, affairs, and bastards she has had; how dramatic, egotistical, and sanctimonious she is; and ultimately how temporary her 15 minutes will be.

 

[frankfrank]

Even those who are in favor of her, should have shrunk away when she ORDERED her deputies also to disallow the marriages. She is *FORCING* her religion on her deputies, and on everybody in the county (including, of course, those who are HAPPY to have her religion crammed down their throats). She is serving in a GOVERNMENT office, and the government (at any level) is forbidden to force religion on others. Thankfully all but one of the people under her are ignoring her decree. SHE IS NOT WORKING FOR A CHURCH. The county clerk office is not a church - it's the government.

"Freedom of religion" MUST include FREEDOM FROM RELIGIOUS DOGMA AND FORCE.

Nobody is forced to attend a church (except, perhaps, by parents), and religious dogma is fine there, but DO NOT FORCE YOUR DOGMA ON MY KARMA! (Sorry, your dogma just got struck by my karma - I was driving too fast.)

 

[T-Rexx]

A person in contempt may be held indefinitely, without due process, because that person controls the terms of his or her imprisonment.

In the case of Kim Davis, I suspect she hoped to be imprisoned. She rejected all sorts of (frankly, unreasonably generous) offers that would have enabled her to remain in her job without penalty and without obeying the law. She rejected these in plowing forth to her objective: incarceration.

I read her as a person with emotional problems (4 marriages, multiple bastard children, hyperreligiosity) who seeks validation through martyrdom. It is therefore possible she might remain imprisoned for some time.

The attorney general is also looking into formal charges, and if convicted, may trigger an automatic removal from office. I'm not sure if this is the case in Kentucky.

That is a good point. I would be very surprised if Kentucky law allows convicted felons (is contempt of SCOTUS a felony?) to remain in office.

However, the process of obtaining a conviction of Kim Davis would be quite a long affair. I think it more likely that she will tire of prison and capitulate long before it comes to that.

Davis must lose the PR battle. The public will be reminded how many marriages, affairs, and bastards she has had; how dramatic, egotistical, and sanctimonious she is; and ultimately how temporary her 15 minutes will be.

IMO, she has already LOST the PR battle. Republican presidential candidates, who might be expected to flock enthusiastically to her defense, seem confused as to what to say about her (except for a handful of the crazier candidates). Her incarceration was ordered by a Republican judge who despises gay marriage. Her stunning hypocrisy makes her a terrible poster child for the bigots. She flaunts orders from federal and the supreme courts, and makes a mockery of Republican "religious freedom" bills, shining a clear light on why such bills are so dangerous.

As I posted above, Kim Davis is a gift to the gay rights movemnt. In doing exactly what Republicans advocate, she illustrates to the world why Republicans are so wrong about gay rights.

 

[T-Rexx]

Now Davis has white supremacists speaking on her behalf.

http://www.joemygod.com/2015/09/06/...ael-petrouka-speaks-at-kim-davis-rally-video/

When white supremacists are rallying to your support, you've lost the culture wars.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Now Davis has white supremacists speaking on her behalf.

http://www.joemygod.com/2015/09/06/...ael-petrouka-speaks-at-kim-davis-rally-video/

When white supremacists are rallying to your support, you've lost the culture wars.

I honestly couldn't have asked for something better to happen to her.

 

[rareboy]

^ Better than having Hucksterbee pleading for her release back into a world that wishes she would choke on her own bile.

 

[chrisrobin]

Now Davis has white supremacists speaking on her behalf.

http://www.joemygod.com/2015/09/06/...ael-petrouka-speaks-at-kim-davis-rally-video/

When white supremacists are rallying to your support, you've lost the culture wars.

Quoted for truth.