What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

[Kulindahr]

I have a sinking feeling that she will serve out her term of office sitting in jail.

Hopefully, she won't get a paycheck.

 

[hotatlboi]

That is a good point. I would be very surprised if Kentucky law allows convicted felons (is contempt of SCOTUS a felony?) to remain in office.

Davis is currently being held on civil contempt, i.e. she has not been "convicted" of anything.

Her sentence to jail is simply remedial until she complies or resigns.

 

[Kulindahr]

Davis is currently being held on civil contempt, i.e. she has not been "convicted" of anything.

Her sentence to jail is simply remedial until she complies or resigns.

I have to wonder if by jailing her the court made the Kentucky AG's job of convicting her on criminal malfeasance more difficult. Though since her remaining in jail means she's still refusing to do her job, the malfeasance continues, so perhaps not. In that case, she may find herself rudely awakened one morning by a court official with paperwork for her, announcing indictment by the state.

Anyone know anything new about the state AG's pursuit of this?

 

[T-Rexx]

Davis is currently being held on civil contempt, i.e. she has not been "convicted" of anything.

Her sentence to jail is simply remedial until she complies or resigns.

Yes, but Alnitak's point is that the AG wants to pursue charges against her. If the AG should get a conviction, that should automatically discharge Davis from her office.

 

[Kulindahr]

Yes, but Alnitak's point is that the AG wants to pursue charges against her. If the AG should get a conviction, that should automatically discharge Davis from her office.

That's the way it normally works with criminal malfeasance. In Oregon it would also mean the state could step in and take charge of the clerk's office until the next election, to be sure it was being run in accordance with the law, as well. That's a threat that makes a county grow up and get on the ball impressively quickly.

 

[Jacquemar]

So what will happen if her appeal is granted?? Does that mean she'll be charged with contempt again??

 

[DonQuixote]

The appeal isn't likely to be granted.
Federal Judge found her in contempt AFTER SCOTUS refused to hear her pre-contempt appeal.
I doubt seriously an appellate Federal Court between the lone judge and SCOTUS will even consider touching it - she's toxic.

 

[hotatlboi]

So what will happen if her appeal is granted?? Does that mean she'll be charged with contempt again??

She's toast. She's going to rot in jail until she either obeys or the state relieves her of her duties or changes the law to alter her duties.

 

[T-Rexx]

She's toast. She's going to rot in jail until she either obeys or the state relieves her of her duties or changes the law to alter her duties.

I don't think Bunning will leave her jailed indefinitely. He said he would review the situation after one week, and decide where to go from there.

The problem for Bunning is that if he releases Davis, she may go back to the clerk's office and immediately stop her clerks from issuing gay marriage licenses. In fact, given Davis' behavior to date, that is what might be expected. But I don't think Bunning is comfortable keeping Davis jailed indefinitely. So that puts Bunning in a pickle of his own.

 

[thewiz]

Personally, I think he should just leave her where she has chosen. At some point the Liberty Counsel is going to raise enough money on her plight that they'll walk away from her and she'll find herself alone in a jail cell. The other option is for a special prosecutor to bring charges which would result in her forfeiting the position. I also think the plaintiffs who have been injured by her actions should seek her salary and any present/future proceeds she may make off her stupidity. We could be looking at the next Sarah Palin.

 

[T-Rexx]

Personally, I think he should just leave her where she has chosen.

I agree. But Bunning knows that if this situation becomes prolonged, at some point he will start to look as uncompormising as she is. He does not want that to happen. Even though Bunning has offered Davis multiple outs which she has refused to take, I do not believe he will keep her incarcerated indefinitely.

At some point the Liberty Counsel is going to raise enough money on her plight that they'll walk away from her and she'll find herself alone in a jail cell.

No, that won't happen. That would be extremely unethical behavior on Liberty Counsel's part. Even worthy of disbarment, potentially.

The other option is for a special prosecutor to bring charges which would result in her forfeiting the position.

True, but this would take a long time. Certainly more than a year, and possibly pushing into two years. I don't know when Davis' term of office ends, but I would not be surprised if it would end before she could be prosecuted out of office. Of course, Davis may stand for reelection. I don't know how the people of Rowan County feel about her. But it would not surprise me if she could win reelection in this socially backwards part of America, even given her behavior to date.

I also think the plaintiffs who have been injured by her actions should seek her salary and any present/future proceeds she may make off her stupidity. We could be looking at the next Sarah Palin.

Yeah, the people whom Davis has harmed ought to be suing her for damages. But that is very expensive, and a major hassle.

 

[hotatlboi]

I agree. But Bunning knows that if this situation becomes prolonged, at some point he will start to look as uncompormising as she is. He does not want that to happen. Even though Bunning has offered Davis multiple outs which she has refused to take, I do not believe he will keep her incarcerated indefinitely.

You don't get to compromise with a judge just because you don't like what a court order says. The judge will do whatever is necessary to enforce the law.

The only way she is getting out is if she agrees to some arrangement whereby the law can be enforced.

 

[T-Rexx]

You don't get to compromise with a judge just because you don't like what a court order says. The judge will do whatever is necessary to enforce the law.

The only way she is getting out is if she agrees to some arrangement whereby the law can be enforced.

Judges are not immune to public opinion. Bunning is not going to keep her locked up forever.

 

[T-Rexx]

NOM is soliciting funds to "help" Kim Davis.

So far, they've raised just under $6,000.

http://www.joemygod.com/2015/09/08/nom-launches-kim-davis-bigotry-reward-fund/

 

[thewiz]

I did like the Liberty Counsel guy getting grilled yesterday -- by FOX news nonetheless. And today, they had a new rep on CNN who also developed new talking points that blame the state and try to insinuate that Kim Davis swore to uphold the constitution of the State of Kentucky and the United States but that "it changed." Apparently, by their deduction, court opinions and law changes may or may not have to be followed by those elected to office; it's kind of like a smorgasbord. I do wonder if they would be so fervent if a Muslim clerk refused to issue licenses to mixed religion marriages or required women to be covered in her office at all times.

What these folks have developed in 30 second sound bites is that this is a "Christian nation," which it is not. It was founded to be free from religious identification (or else the Church of England would be in full bloom). Sadly, few are willing to call them out on it and the mega (millionaire) pastors want to harp this line of BS that is happily consumed by the masses. I always wondered how the likes of Jim Jones and other nuts attracted their followers; Huckster and the like are no different.

 

[hotatlboi]

Judges are not immune to public opinion. Bunning is not going to keep her locked up forever.

1. Federal judges are pretty well insulated from public opinion, since they can only be removed by impeachment proceedings for official misconduct. Ordering the law to be followed is certainly not anything problematic.

2. Even if the judge were to be influenced by public opinion, that is overwhelmingly against Davis. Even people on Fox News have started condemning her and saying she needs to follow the law.

 

[Jacquemar]

She was just released.

 

[Jacquemar]

So what now???

 

[hotatlboi]

She was released with a statement from the judge saying that he was satisfied her office is now in compliance with the law and will remain so.

If she starts refusing licenses again she could be returned to jail.

Seems like he's offering her the option that was previously there. She doesn't have to issue them herself as long as someone in the office does it.

 

[hotatlboi]

From the judge:

"A court order issued Tuesday by U.S. District Judge David Bunning says, "Defendant Davis shall be released from the custody of the U.S. Marshals forthwith. Defendant Davis shall not interfere in any way, directly or indirectly, with the efforts of her deputy clerks to issue marriage licenses to all legally eligible couples. If Defendant Davis should interfere in any way with their issuance, that will be considered a violation of this Order and appropriate sanctions will be considered."