Why are so many dumb fucks so willing to bareback?

[JasunStrikesBack]

I’ve heard so many guys say that “with a condom, I can’t feel anything.”
I always say, buddy, you put that condom on your dick or you’re really not going to be feeling anything.
Sad thing is that a lot of young gay men, thanks to their “abstinence only sex education,” don’t even know the proper way to put on a condom. Make no mistake… sex with condoms outside the controlled environment of a porn shoot with our AIM testing is a necessity. And with a condom put on properly, you’ll barely know it’s there at all.
Step one is put a bit of lube on your dick. I always use a silicone-based lube because it stays slick and doesn’t dry up. Water-based lubes aren’t good for anal sex because an asshole isn’t self-lubricating like female parts that we’ll never talk about again.
Step two.. pour a drop or two of lube in the reservoir tip of the condom. JUST A COUPLE DROPS. Any more and the condom can slip off once you get going.
Step three is to generously lube both your dick and the guy’s asshole. If you finger him a bit first, you’ll get lube inside his ass and help him relax a bit.
Then get to fucking.

 

[Nomenclature]

I've actually had guys like that argue with me when I refused to have unprotected sex with them; "THE AIDS RISK IS EXAGGERATED!," them told me. "You would have to have sex with that person more than once, or have an open wound in your ass in order to he infected with it. You're too paranoid."

Uhhh. . . yeah. Right. Enjoy your STDs.

 

[ViennaExpat83]

.....but in the "straight world", barebacking (in the sense of HIV/STDs) isn't even the issue----it's "omg she is a slut for getting pregnant so young" or "damn, did you hear about Betty...she is having her FIFTH baby!"

In both scenarios, the people are BAREBACKING (whether you wanna accept reality and call it that or not).....but the perceptions are totally different [and unfair]. If a gay couple has been partnered for 1 year and have bareback sex, they are condemned as "helping spread HIV" or "unintelligent" or "reckless" or "idiotic" or "nasty"----but if a straight couple that's married or even un-married (have bareback sex and) welcomes a baby, then everyone says "aaaw that is so sweet" or "what a great gift from God" or "I am so happy for the new expecting couple" or "I'm gonna be an auntie!", etc etc
Think people, think!

The perceptions of barebacking between gay and straight are different. That is simply because of reality and common sense.

Every year around 50% of new HIV infections are by gay men. Straight people account for the other 50%.

But gay men are 2-3% of the general population. So the average gay man is about 30 times more likely to become HIV+ than the average straight person. That is a staggering difference that justifies a different perception and attitude.

This difference is not because gay men are more likely to bareback. It is because unprotected anal sex is much more conducive to the transmission of HIV than vaginal sex.

Now, you can say that sucks. But that is what we have to work with.
I don't think having 10-25% of gay people in major cities be HIV+ is acceptable. It is a major public health catastrophe for our community.
The solutions are the same as already worked in the 1980s and 1990s in drastically reducing HIV rates in the gay community: hard-hitting HIV prevention campaigns, and no toleration of barebacking glorification or apologists.
This is not a lifestyle choice or freedom expression issue -- this is a public health issue.

I find it interesting that you and an increasing number of gay guys cry foul about condom hard-liners as if having the crude facts presented before you were a serious intrusion in your life -- but you can't find any energy or time to get outraged at the fact that in many cities 1 in 5 gay men is dying from a painful chronic disease.

 

[AllMan]

I find it interesting that you and an increasing number of gay guys cry foul about condom hard-liners as if having the crude facts presented before you were a serious intrusion in your life -- but you can't find any energy or time to get outraged at the fact that in many cities 1 in 5 gay men is dying from a painful chronic disease.

No one is "crying foul" in the sense of people intruding in other's sex lives...all we are saying is people are adults....you give your little speeches and spills with the statistics and fact all day long, but do you really think that is gonna stop people from barebacking and doing what they wanna do anyway? If anything----when you're constantly shoving this down people's throats----they will rebel and revolt, in a sense. I am in no way supporting this or saying it is right. In this society, people do what is taboo, and they want what they can't have. The more you say a sexual deviation/pervasion/act is taboo or condemned, then there is gonna be more people who fetishize it or do it just for the damness of it.

Like cigarettes and alcohol, underage kids smoke/drink and steal cigs/alcohol because their whole life they have been told it's bad for them or they can't have it.

Same with illegal drugs, people want what they cant have...so if you tell them weed or coke is bad/inaccessible.....then they'll only want it more. So when kids can't have cigs or alcohol, they steal it. Then, as a result of using the alcohol or drugs, crime increases even more.

When I lived in Japan, there was no minimum age to get in the clubs and drink...and people left their bicycles and umbrellas outside of the store without the fear of it being stolen. There were less crimes. It's like that in many Europeans countries too.....that's why their crime rate is lower and their rate of HIV infection is lower (because people are educated about HIV, they're allowed to make their own decisions, and it's not constantly pushed down people's throats [hence the low rates of fetishizing and rebellions]).

All I am simply saying is....yes, we really appreciate your fact-finding and education techniques, I don't want HIV just as much as you don't want it----and I am very picky in my sexual adverntures.....but America has already been educated about condoms/STDs, over and over and over and over and over again...there is no need for a million threads on here preaching to the choir. People are gonna do what they wanna do anyway; as long as you wear your condoms, then you'll never ever have to worry about catching anything ever. The condom will protect you from everything---HIV and STD's are not airborne, so how does other people's HIV affect you?? Let those barebackers go off and kill themselves if they want, once they eliminate themselves then you will have a whole race of pure-disease-free-gays, that's what you strive for anyway right?

This is an endless topic that could go on forever. The poor little horse died 10 years ago, please stop beating him!!

and finally.....

 

[AllMan]

Logically, any guy who flagrantly advertises a bareback fetish in a gay personal/sex ad is most likely positive, and jaded about it. Appalling as it is, the truth is that their minds are set and no one's browbeating is going to change their behavior. It'll only make them defensively cling to what they were doing already, just to spite those who have the audacity to disagree with their life choices. Reminds me of the time when I was in an AOL chatroom. I read some guys profile, that blatantly stated "raw - only." The kicker was that next to it, in parenthesis, he wrote: "not interested in your lectures."

The people who read these ads should know that this person most likely has something, and skip on over them, if they don't want to get caught up in their potential drama. Disturbing as their activity may be, there's actually some value in it; at least you know where their head is at. Too many guys on the other hand present themselves modestly, but then are shockingly willing to engage in raw sex when it comes time to do the deed. And in the heat of the moment, that can be as tempting as a slice of pizza to someone whose been dieting for a month. Those who advertise their penchant for bareback are at least giving you a heads up to where their head is at.

Exactly! That's exactly what I said above and have been saying all along

 

[CorporalAris]

@ViennaExpat

Actually, homosexuals make up more like 10% of any given population, not 2 or 3%.

 

[joshz88]

If you're so dumb as to have bareback sex with no protection and think you're not going to get infected with anything, it's your own dumb fault.

I'm so sick of people acting like the rest of the world needs to protect them from their own stupidity.

I absolutely agree. It's almost impossible to be a teenager or an adult today in America and not know that unprotected sex is dangerous. If a person willingly decides to have unprotected sex and they get an STD, well, that is their fault and they unfortunately will have to live with the consequences forever. All we can do is educate people on the topic. If they still want to go out and have unprotected sex with random people because they're either foolish enough to think that they could never get an STD or they just don't care, that is their own choice. All you can do is be smart and protect yourself by being safe and being careful about who you hook up with. It's survival of the fittest-be smart and you'll be just fine, but if you're stupid about it, you may get what you're asking for.

 

[ViennaExpat83]

No one is "crying foul" in the sense of people intruding in other's sex lives...all we are saying is people are adults....you give your little speeches and spills with the statistics and fact all day long, but do you really think that is gonna stop people from barebacking and doing what they wanna do anyway? If anything----when you're constantly shoving this down people's throats----they will rebel and revolt, in a sense. I am in no way supporting this or saying it is right.

The gay public is not educated about STDs and HIV. I have seen that over and over when talking to gay guys.

Gay guys 40-60 yo are much more well-informed and bareback much less. That has to do with the very hard-hitting HIV prevention campaigns of the 1980s/90s, and the zero tolerance climate in relation to barebacking that once existed in the gay community.

Consider this from one of the latest studies:
-- those who answered they engaged in unprotected sex "everytime" and "sometimes" was 11% and 35% for guys under 25 yo, but 2% and 10% for those over 40.
-- when asked if ads that would show the specific grim details of living with HIV would make them more likely to have use condoms: 4% said no, 60% said possibly, and 36% said yes.
-- 34% of guys under 25 yo thought that contracting HIV was no more serious than getting herpes or gonorrhea, while only 12% of those 40 agreed.
-- only 19% of those under 25 agreed with the statement that HIV is an illness with debilitating side effects that can reduce your life expectancy by an average of 20 years, while 66% of those over 40 yo agreed.
-- when asked what the greatest factor encouraging barebacking behavior was: the greatest category of answers was "bareback porn".


So, this shows very clearly:
1. people are not well educated about the facts.
2. between 36%-96% of these people might change if there were more information campaigns out there that were crudely blunt about HIV, instead of the usual "it's a good idea to wrap it up!" kind of bullshit.
3. and normalization of barebacking, through bareback porn and other tendencies, is contributing heavily to the rising HIV infection rates

You yourself, AllMan, are an illustration of the lack of information prevalent. You have repeatedly spouted nonsense about straights barebacking too, and that's how babies are made, etc. Completely ignoring the essential fact that anal sex is several dozen times riskier to transmit HIV than vaginal sex.

Your contention that discussing facts is going to lead to condom fatigue and lead to guys barebacking more out of rebellion is not supported by any study I have seen.

This is not going to get solved, as you suggest, by waiting for the dumb barebackers to die off. That didn't happen in the 80s when many more were dying at astounding rates. It isn't going to happen now. At this rate it will continue to be a continuing catastrophe for the gay community for generations, with 15-20% suffering from it.

So, it's either that, or we find ways to reduce barebacking. It can be done. I don't think doing nothing is an option.
On a personal level I have nothing to gain from this, as I have been in a monogamous relationship for several years... call me odd, but I give a fuck about other people.

 

[ViennaExpat83]

@ViennaExpat

Actually, homosexuals make up more like 10% of any given population, not 2 or 3%.

Hi, CorporalAris!

Actually, as Doyen already pointed out, the 10% number comes from the Kinsey studies from the 1950s, which had many methodological and sample problems. It has kind of become an urban myth, since it is such a round easy to remember number.

In the last 20 years modern studies have shown results consistently in the 2-4% range. So, 3% is probably a fairly accurate guessestimate.

 

[AllMan]

This is not going to get solved, as you suggest, by waiting for the dumb barebackers to die off.

And it definitely won't get solved by you preaching to the choir on some gay chat/forum thingy.

We can agree to disagree all day long and

until we are blue in the face...but truth is: [some/alot of] people are just gonna do whatever the hell they wanna do regardless, whether or not they have the facts in their face, whether or not it will cause them harm/grief/death, whether or not you say so.

If you really wanna make a difference ViennaExpat83, then rally and hold seminars in real life. Devote your time and donate your personal money, go on a state-to-state compaign around the country and teach the naive and ignorant young people that you so-called "give a fuck about"!

You say people aren't listening, and there is a need for change----then why don't you be that hero we need in the gay community....stop talking about it, and start doing it! I would be behind you, and I'm sure alot of other guys would be behind you too. You feel so strongly about this epidemic, then be the role model we all need to get this campaign going! I support you ((((((YES WE CAN!!!)))))

I know I may seem harsh, but that's the reality of it, whether you wanna agree with me or not! Make a change, then you will convince me all this talk is really worth it.

 

[ViennaExpat83]

And it definitely won't get solved by you preaching to the choir on some gay chat/forum thingy.

We can agree to disagree all day long until we are blue in the face...but truth is: [some/alot of] people are just gonna do whatever the hell they wanna do, whether or not they have the facts in their face, whether or not it will cause them harm/grief/death, whether or not you say so.

If you really wanna make a difference ViennaExpat, then rally and hold seminars in real life. Devote your time and donate your personal money, go on a state-to-state compaign around the country and teach the naive and ignorant young people that you so-called "give a fuck about"!

I know I may seem harsh, but that's the reality of it, whether you wanna agree with me or not!

I already donate money and time to HIV prevention organizations, thanks for asking...

Some people will continue doing stupid stuff, but others can be reached out to in different ways. Including lurkers who read this thread. I presented data that is relevant to the topic.

What is clear is:
You always react against any talk against barebacking and its prevention, not just in this thread but in others. Often you put out nonsensical misinformation together with your views, such as that barebacking is as much of a risk for gays as for straights. And I am still waiting on your data supporting your assertion that talking more about the dangers of barebacking leads to rebellion against condom use.

You do whatever you want in your life, but don't pass off your rationalizations and misinformation to others. And, just because it makes you bored, or irritated, or anxious, or whatever it is this discussion makes you feel, that does not mean me and others will stop discussing this topic in a constructive way.

Stay safe and good luck.

 

[Nomenclature]

Those who advertise their penchant for bareback are at least giving you a heads up to where their head is at.

Up their ass?

 

[AllMan]

[STRIKE]I already donate money and time to HIV prevention organizations, thanks for asking...

Some people will continue doing stupid stuff, but others can be reached out to in different ways. Including lurkers who read this thread. I presented data that is relevant to the topic.

What is clear is:
You always react against any talk against barebacking and its prevention, not just in this thread but in others. Often you put out nonsensical misinformation together with your views, such as that barebacking is as much of a risk for gays as for straights. And I am still waiting on your data supporting your assertion that talking more about the dangers of barebacking leads to rebellion against condom use.

You do whatever you want in your life, but don't pass off your rationalizations and misinformation to others. And, just because it makes you bored, or irritated, or anxious, or whatever it is this discussion makes you feel, that does not mean me and others will stop discussing this topic in a constructive way.

Stay safe and good luck.[/STRIKE]

Congratulations, did you get 'whatever it was that you wanted to accomplish' done? Awesome! Your opinions of me are just that---opinions. I respect them although they are wrong. I will stay informed and I practice safe sex just as much as the next guy, but I don't need your luck. Thanks anyway!

 

[ViennaExpat83]

Congratulations, did you get 'whatever it was that you wanted to accomplish' done? Awesome! Your opinions of me are just that---opinions. I respect them although they are wrong. I will stay informed and I practice safe sex just as much as the next guy, but I don't need your luck. Thanks anyway!

How you always react very negatively to topics against barebacking and for HIV prevention, trying to shut down any discussion, in this and in other threads, is not a matter of opinion -- it is a matter of record, as anyone who has seen or bothers to look up your posts can observe.
The same goes for the wrong facts you have put out repeatedly on the relative risks of barebacking.

The rest I wrote about you, you are right, was just an opinion, or, to be more exact, a suspicion. If I am wrong, then this is one time I am very glad to be wrong.

 

[AllMan]

[STRIKE]How you always react very negatively to topics against barebacking and for HIV prevention, trying to shut down any discussion, in this and in other threads, is not a matter of opinion -- it is a matter of record, as anyone who has seen or bothers to look up your posts can observe.
The same goes for the wrong facts you have put out repeatedly on the relative risks of barebacking.

The rest I wrote about you, you are right, was just an opinion, or, to be more exact, a suspicion. If I am wrong, then this is one time I am very glad to be wrong.[/STRIKE]

Congratulations, did you get 'whatever it was that you wanted to accomplish' done? Once again, job well done!

Do you even have a point?? Oh yea, that's right....your sole and whole point is to attack my character! Feel Better???

 

[jizzeater]

I found this new article on gay men's attitudes to HIV and barebacking interesting. It also lays a lot of blame at the foot of the agencies and institutions supposed to be working for HIV prevention.

Good read.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/02/comment-the-way-forward-for-hiv-prevention/

 

[Rex]

I hate when stupid threads like this go on for this long and get into a big wind up of countless arguments. It was a simple question people. I don't need to hear every direction this could take. Jeez..

 

[TheJapBoy]

Wrong Thread XD

 

[GM1985]

Uh, yeah, you do.

You asked the question. So absorb the fact that it CAN go in many different directions.

I hate when people ask questions and then run away from the answer because it's not what they wanted to hear. Then why even bother to ask?

Well said!

 

[vulgar_newcomer]

heterosexual men and women typically don't hook up through a hole in a wall either. and yes, while tons of our straight brethren get lucky by taking chicks home from bars etc - there's no question that there's a certain faction of gay men who are GALACTICALLY promiscuous and hook up with TONS of men they don't even know. glory holes, bath houses, sex clubs etc - those are the realm of the homo. and i'll bet way more diseases are spread through that kind of contact than by guys going home with other dudes from bars. makes me shudder just thinking about it.

Wow,

I'm a gay dude and though I know its true about a certain percentage of gay guys with glory holes I never put my dick in one, nor frequented places where they are on purpose.
Plenty of our straight brethren are bare-backing. Never a shortage of babies coming into the world as a mistake, casual hook ups, one niters, drunken/drugged out parties and in fact the rate of unmarried gals having babies is on the increase.
Was leaving a party late Sat night and a guy was fucking a gal on his crotch rocket motorcycle, he yelled over to me as I stumbled away if I had a rubber, I didn't say anything he said "fuck it anyway" and went back to work.

If you ever visit Tampa and want to see something check out a place called "The Playhouse" next to TIA, plenty of hetro's rolling around in plain view playing unsafe sex.

If you are a gay guy maybe the hetro world isn't on display as to its wild side and as its accepted chances are a cop ain't gonna hassle the couple in the car at the park pulling a train with a couple gals, but take a walk to the rest room where gay guys may be cruising and its a bust.

A victim of technology we are with all the web has to offer. Before GL and dating sites, like all the way back in 1997 people were doing what they do now, your attention just wasn't drawn to it because the web hadn't shrunk the world yet.