Why Can't JUBers Learn To Speak?

[new86]

I admit that my English in not the good the same as a native speaker's...
at first I always said sorry for this, but i't s annoying repeating this every time ;-)

 

[treanir]

Lugano.... that's in Switzerland, right? The Italian-speaking part?

Like I said before: communication is the important think when speaking. If we understand what you want to say, then there is no problem. And I can understand you just fine. So you don't have to apologize every time.

 

[tbonez]

This is a "fashion statement", a trend that will soon die out and be replaced by something else.

Sometimes it's a fashion statement, sometime it's the best people can do with what they have at their disposal. Remember where the 'fashion trend' of baggy jeans started and why. It was not haute couture from the runways of Paris but necessity from the ghettos of America.

Eventually, this internet language will evolve into something else and then we'll all be in real trouble!

No, I don't think we will. Read Shakespeare, "plain English" of the 1570's (??) or the King James Bible which was written in "plain English" (1600 ??) so that the 'common man' could understand it.

As for a generational gap, I'm only 19 and I'm a stickler for grammar and proper usage...So I hardly think that's a valid arguement anymore.

Strange that. I can honestly say that I don't hear people my age prattling on about the 'poor state of language'. It's generally the old glue-pots. Just my personal experience. I think it's great that you are a stickler for your own grammar.

We need to stop floating in the mainstream letting current trends and fads wash us down river!

Nice sentiment, really.

A bit quixotic I think.

 

[Lube]

He/she was right! Language (just talking about the verbal kind here) is all about communication. Without that, it's nothing more than a string of unintelligible sounds and would therefore serve no purpose at all. Put me in a room with a Korean man who doesn't speak a word of English and we would be unable to communicate. The languages we both speak would become useless in an instant. Over time we might learn a few words from each other's language, after which there would be some use for the sounds and words.

Communication is key.

Right. And why were capitalization and punctuation invented?

To improve communication.

 

[tbonez]

To improve communication.

Hey Lube,

I read your blog. Interesting observations about people 'taking things the wrong way'.

It seems (to me) that there is little correlation between linguistic form and understanding. I'm thinking writing 'well' and being clear have little to do with each other. Being too clever isn't always a good thing. Obscure is a first cousin of obtuse and being witty isn't working when the author is the only one laughing at his cleverness.

You BTW write clearly and precisely. Rare thing that.

As for your role as peacemaker, very noble. I hope you are wearing your flack jacket and helmet...or at least some goggles to protect yourself from all the flying shit. I don't always agree with your assessment of motives but I always respect your opinion...and then go back to doing whatever it was I was doing.

 

[MidnightPrism]

you know...i remember one of my english instructors saying the point of language to express what you are thinking to someone else. so if you do that and they understand you then that's all that matters in the end.

Exactly. I never made good marks in English and do not speak grammatically correct. If you know what I'm saying then shut-up & quit complaining... if not just put me on ignore.

 

[Lube]

Being too clever isn't always a good thing.

Words to live by, my friend. Words to live by.

 

[Lube]

Exactly. I never made good marks in English and do not speak grammatically correct. If you know what I'm saying then shut-up & quit complaining... if not just put me on ignore.

I don't think anyone wants to correct your grammar mistakes.

This thread was started on the topic of deliberate misuse of English. Rather than repeat myself, I'll just link to myself.

 

[MidnightPrism]

I don't think anyone wants to correct your grammar mistakes.

Good because this new Firefox browser is already drawing a red line under most of my mistakes

 

[tbonez]

Words to live by, my friend. Words to live by.

You are singing to the choir. That said, some of us can't consistently carry a tune despite our best intentions...and worst. Rest assured, I know when I 'm being an ass (usually). Sometimes it seems the most approiate response. I have noticed braying is the only 'language' some people seem to understand.

Exactly. I never made good marks in English and do not speak grammatically correct. If you know what I'm saying then shut-up & quit complaining... if not just put me on ignore.

If someone ignores you they are missing out on a good thing. You are another one who speaks clearly and to the point. I can honestly say I have never noticed that there was anything particularly wrong with your English. Maybe I'm just more interested in what you have to say rather than exactly how you say it.

 

[ixthrock]

i have to take this thread to heart because ive rarely capitolized (or is it capitalised?) my words, and have used punctuation sparingly.

frinstance, in the sentence above, (and in this one) i have refused to capitulize "i," because, especially on an internet bulletin board, a capitylixed "i" just seems egomaniacal. call me a fan of e e cummings.

But I have to admit that when I leave out apostrophes, a few commas, etc., it CAN make my posts more of a chore to decipher.

I don't usually comment on usage, but when I see things such as "site" used instead of "cite," It only REALLY irks me when the poster seems to have adopted a "literate style" (i.e., made some effort to be grammatically correct et. al.) (sorry to single you out, poster-whose-name-im-not-going-back-and-looking-up, this is only one of several usage problems i saw in this entire thread, and it was the only one i remembered when i got to this point) That being said, merely irking me is nothing to worry anyone's pretty lil head over. Not even if you're hoping to impress; You do, darling, you do.

I generally like to affect a lower literacy:
1)as not to put off the hunky garage lads and yard boys who feel insecure in wit.
2)as not to be taken over-seriously.

My scintillating brilliance has proved to be a thorn in my side on more than one occasion.

Now, for "fuck."
There is a tendency for some words to be used for nearly every situation. "cool" is one of these, "Fuck" another. What happens when a word's usage broadens is that the meaning of the word becomes diluted. It no longer has the power it used to have. "Fuck" used to shock and offend. Now, at best, we think the user has an under-developed vocabulary. "Gay" no longer means "quaintly happy", or, sadly, even "a cocksucker." It means a host of things from stupid to unfashionable. Indeed, if a querent were to respond positively as to that hunk across the room being gay, one no longer has the guarantee that the gentlemen in question craves the bolgna pony. It could just mean that, yes, his shirt is on inside-out.

 

[Lube]

You are singing to the choir.

And you are attacking a straw man.

Quixotic, indeed.

Can you pull some quotes out of this thread that said that people were complaining about honest mistakes rather than intentional corruption of the language?

I don't recall a consistent theme in that regard in this thread (although I admittedly won't go back and read each and every post). It certainly wasn't in the original post.

Straw man argument.

 

[tbonez]

And you are attacking a straw man.

Was I?

You know that is the second time you have suggested as much to me ... and I still don't see it. It's probably a result of my limited grasp as opposed to the target's fantastic reach.

I saw a bit of stawman and a whole lot of something else. I'm thinking it wasn't just me...if for no other reason but because of the general tenor of PM's. BTW I do wish people would 'publicly' state their perceptions and opinions as opposed to PMing them. I understand why they don't but it leaves some posters' asses hanging out in the wind.

It's pretty clear you are one of the brightest boys in this box (sincerely), but the rest of us are left with..well, 'what we have'.

You saw a strawman, I saw straw once through the horse. ( I know, hay is for horses but we aren't farmers here.)

Quixotic, indeed.

Yes, even I can appreciate irony...even love it. I would mention windmills don't tilt back. Another reason I think was not deluded.

Can you pull some quotes out of this thread that said that people were complaining about honest mistakes rather than intentional corruption of the language?

Yes I can if you'd like me to I will...actually I already did as much I think.

It certainly wasn't in the original post.

No it wasn't, but it seemed to me to become a common theme pretty early on.

 

[tbonez]

If anything, I would think the majority of age-ism expressed in this thread tends to be toward those who are seemingly older than their detractors.

Can you pull some quotes out of this thread that said that people were complaining about honest mistakes rather than intentional corruption of the language?

Two birds, one post. The agism thing and the "honest mistake" vs. 'laziness, ignorance, or rather just complete disrespect'. I know I'm glossing over...I'm not prepared to re-read over a hundred posts so I just nailed a few that poped out.

But what I don't understand, this is probably a generation gap problem, why type the way you have when it is only marginally quicker than using the correct words. Plus you actually have to think about how you are writing as it can't be automatic to write u instead of you.

I am left feeling that it is a question of self image. I write in shorthand because I am a young, cool guy with a mobile phone that is in constant use.

And it has nothing to do with poor education, unless you delight in using poor language. It is always the time to improve your skills.

Here's a clangour

And that is why this world is going to crap. I doubt if most younger people even know what 'respect' means anymore. ...

I don't know if it's laziness, ignorance, or rather just complete disrespect that keeps them from using the language properly!

BTW, when I said "old glue pot" it wasn't meant to be ageist, thought In retrospect I can see how it bloody looks that way. Tucker Carlson is an "old glue pot" though he certainly isn't "old" and that isn't the issue in any case.

 

[tbonez]

^ So in your opinion I would just be a glue pot then?

As much as you might want to take it personally I wasn't talking about you. I'm not seeing you in a bow-tie somehow. To be perfectly honest I don't think you're the glue-pot type.

This may come as a shock, but I really have no idea how old you are nor do I care particularly. I'm assuming you are some where between 5 months and 50 years older than I am.

I'm quite content being 21. I'm thinking I'll feel the same way when I'm 40...ask me in 19 years. I figure that growing older isn't any great disaster. If it were I'd expect 60 year olds to be throwing themselves off bridges at the same rate as 18 year olds...which they aren't.

BTW, Someone thought my signing off "geezer" was ageist. I had to laugh. No, I was signing my post "Geezer!" as in is a loud-mouthed, hard-drinking early 20's with nothing to worry about for at least a few years. Geezer's philosophy: 'Uni is for twats'.

Obviously not everyone watches Little Brittan...A shame really!

 

[blackbeltninja]

Personally, I think DS-Writr hit the nail on the head somewhere in the middle of his lengthy post #136 above - foreign people for whom English is second or third language must really struggle sometimes reading this stuff.

Do people really manage to carry three or four different language sets in their brains that they can write in shorthand on a mobile phone and in here, talk another way to their friends and family and then still have to write a business letter/email or submit an essay at school and switch so seamlessly between them all? I can't.

I can speak two and a half languages and I find it much easier to try to speak them to the best of my ability all the time rather than think whom I'm addressing and attempt to tart it up or dumb it down accordingly.

But just because my language usage is good, that doesn't mean it has to be top-end stuff all the time - like referring to someone as taciturn or loquacious instead of using "quiet" and "talkative" which are probably more easily understood.

Us grammar-Nazis are not asking for every word spoken here to be really obscure and only found in the really heavy, thicker-than-the-bible editions of the dictionary or Roget's thesaurus. I'm not wanting everyone to be a Tennyson or Samuel Johnson. I just want everyone's opinions to be assimilated easily, and by everyone who happens to read those opinions.

Is it seriously too much to ask?

-d-

 

[iflookscouldkill]

I have excellent grammar skills if I do say so myself. On occasion, I may use "gonna" or "wanna" or "cuz" but that's just when I'm lazy. As far as "ain't" goes, they might as well make it a real word because EVERYONE uses it and not just on this board.

 

[The_Reaper]

Spelling isn't really the main problem though.

We all make mistakes from time to time, that we don't catch.

A missed placed I or E in a word like "Their" isn't too bad...

But sometimes missing a letter can change the word completely!

If you were spelling the word "What" and somehow didn't hit W you have the word "hat".

In a sentence, that can be really confusing.

So we decided hat could we do....

True, you can conclude/assume that the typer meant to put the W there and say What.

But there are some cases, I've seen it on the board before, where an incorrectly spelt word makes the sentence almost unreadable.

I can't think of an example, but it turned the intended word into other words...And basically changed the entire topic and point of the post.

Hard to give someone help or advice, or respond to a post, when you have no idea what they're talking about.

 

[just_mills]

So in essence you're complaining about peoples meer mistakes, (that they probaly hadn't noticed) due to misplacing/typing a letter in a word, that throws you completely off-board.. Im sure in any case you'd be able to figure out what he/she actually meant to type..

Thats how your post comes across, when myself and another read it..