On Topic Discussion 2 yo boy killed by alligator at Disney

[xbuzzerx]

Would you take your family into a lake on a 7 foot canoe knowing how easily they overturn? One that has alligators in it? Would you rent a canoe to someone that wants to take their children out on the lake?

So what do you want now? Pamphlets given to people at the state line informing them that alligators are a threat potentially anywhere in the state? State Rangers to accompany every out of state visitor to ensure they don't go into water?

A complete lack of intelligence or common sense doesn't impart onto everyone else a responsibility for the decisions you make.

 

[xbuzzerx]

It's Florida. You have the same danger out of the park. You cannot assume a danger doesn't exist when there's both a sign warning off the water and the whole state is known as being a possible gator buffet. It's possible they missed the last bit. They didn't miss the sign. They did make a mistaken and think the edge 'wouldn't matter' and that it didn't apply to them. There were concrete repercussions/death - I doubt, knock-on-wood, they'll make a similar mistake again.

Yup. The logical endpoint of what I'm seeing in this thread is that every POSSIBLE threat that we could conceivably imagine someone hasn't considered is posted everywhere outdoors.

The world would be absolutely covered with signage. Which no one would read.

 

[Alistair]

So what do you want now? Pamphlets given to people at the state line informing them that alligators are a threat potentially anywhere in the state? State Rangers to accompany every out of state visitor to ensure they don't go into water?

A complete lack of intelligence or common sense doesn't impart onto everyone else a responsibility for the decisions you make.

Well since you edited my response and didn't answer the questions I asked I can see you're only replying for the sake of an argument.

 

[kallipolis]

Would you take your family into a lake on a 7 foot canoe knowing how easily they overturn? One that has alligators in it? Would you rent a canoe to someone that wants to take their children out on the lake?

Would you build a beach on the edge of a lake in Florida, rent a cabin to a family with children and not tell them their might even be the slimmest of chances that there could be alligators in the lake? You'd just tell them not to swim in the lake?

After an alligator jumped out of the lake at your renters, you'd still only tell the renters a week later to not swim in the lake because it has a steep drop off?

Y'all are nuts.

This is a noteworthy observation knowing that the sign did not address the deadly possibility of alligators preying on tourists, who just happen to be sunning themselves on the beach. Alligators walk on land when fresh meat is on display.

The site owners should face a law suit for failing to acquaint those persons who rent their property, and use their beach that alligators are nearby. The tragic death of a child evidences the dangers associated with building tourist sites in areas where alligators are at large.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Well since you edited my response and didn't answer the questions I asked I can see you're only replying for the sake of an argument.

Your questions are a bit ridiculous, because of course if someone asks why then one could answer, but a sign being there saying "No swimming" should be sufficient enough to let you know there is a reason why they don't want you swimming there. Asking there to be a sign about Alligators isn't sufficient enough because there are plenty of other things in the water that one could get into trouble with. How about when you see a sign that says not to do something you don't do it? Why is this concept too hard to understand or listen to?

If there was a sign that said "No swimming" why would you do it anyway? You are disregarding a sign that is there for a reason. If one needs a laundry list of what not to do when going outside, please do the world a favor and don't leave your house.

 

[kallipolis]

Your questions are a bit ridiculous, because of course if someone asks why then one could answer, but a sign being there saying "No swimming" should be sufficient enough to let you know there is a reason why they don't want you swimming there. Asking there to be a sign about Alligators isn't sufficient enough because there are plenty of other things in the water that one could get into trouble with. How about when you see a sign that says not to do something you don't do it? Why is this concept too hard to understand or listen to?

If there was a sign that said "No swimming" why would you do it anyway? You are disregarding a sign that is there for a reason. If one needs a laundry list of what not to do when going outside, please do the world a favor and don't leave your house.

Better that the sign had addressed the real reason...that alligators are a constant hazard.

Had an alligator exited the water and seized a tourist, enjoying a tanning session on the beach...would the current sign have been sufficient?

Advertising in big letters that alligators are a constant hazard in that zone....proven by the tragic incident....would have been bad for business.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Of course it isn't, but I can guarantee you that if there were signs about Alligators it wouldn't stop everyone. Do warnings on how unhealthy cigarettes are stop people? No. Do constant notifications about drinking and driving, being arrested for it stop people from doing it? No. Do people still text and drive even though there have been deaths upon deaths because of it? Yes.

How far do we need to go till the lot of you learn that there is a certain point that things come down to personal responsibility? The World isn't your playground and if you're traveling places you don't know much about, one should do their research.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Better that the sign had addressed the real reason...that alligators are a constant hazard.

Had an alligator exited the water and seized a tourist, enjoying a tanning session on the beach...would the current sign have been sufficient?

Advertising in big letters that alligators are a constant hazard in that zone....proven by the tragic incident....would have been bad for business.

The sign didn't specify drowning as a possible source of death from swimming, either.

 

[kallipolis]

The sign didn't specify drowning as a possible source of death from swimming, either.

Nor does the sign state that alligators are at large, that would have guaranteed no one entering the water, or even tanning themselves on the beach, for fear of an alligator exiting the water to seize its prey. The presence of highly dangerous predators in the water should have been advertised for the tourists to take note.

The child drowned due to the intervention of an alligator seizing the child, and drowning it in preparation for its supper. Standard behaviour for an alligator seeking to satisfy its hunger pangs.

 

[Kahaih]

Of course it isn't, but I can guarantee you that if there were signs about Alligators it wouldn't stop everyone. Do warnings on how unhealthy cigarettes are stop people? No. Do constant notifications about drinking and driving, being arrested for it stop people from doing it? No. Do people still text and drive even though there have been deaths upon deaths because of it? Yes.

How far do we need to go till the lot of you learn that there is a certain point that things come down to personal responsibility? The World isn't your playground and if you're traveling places you don't know much about, one should do their research.

Funny you should mention that. Did you know that Walt Disney died from lung cancer? He never got to see his Florida park open.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Well since you edited my response and didn't answer the questions I asked I can see you're only replying for the sake of an argument.

I didn't "edit your response", I shortened the quote to the portion I responded to. Nice try though.

I'm not stupid enough to enter bodies of water anywhere in Florida and assume there is neither shark nor gator risk. This is common knowledge. The sense of entitlement that open bodies of water should have been made safe for you and if they weren't, the fault is on somebody else, even if signs tell you not to go in, is what prompts these ridiculous reactions like going after wild animals and killing them in droves after some idiot lets their 2 or 5 or 12 year old go swimming or surfing in Florida and they get attacked by a gator or a shark.

There were signs, they were ignored.

The planet isn't your safety proofed Fisher Price playground.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Nor does the sign state that alligators are at large, that would have guaranteed no one entering the water

Utterly unsupportable conclusion.

Everyone knows there are bull sharks in the ocean waters around Florida and beachgoing recreation is one of the state's largest attractions. The same is true of Great White populations around Australia and South Africa, which are again major beachgoing tourist destinations.

And yet when there is a shark attack, some subset of the population still reacts exactly as you can witness here. A sense of entitled outrage that there was a dangerous animal present in an uncontrolled body of water.

 

[Alistair]

Your questions are a bit ridiculous, because of course if someone asks why then one could answer, but a sign being there saying "No swimming" should be sufficient enough to let you know there is a reason why they don't want you swimming there. Asking there to be a sign about Alligators isn't sufficient enough because there are plenty of other things in the water that one could get into trouble with. How about when you see a sign that says not to do something you don't do it? Why is this concept too hard to understand or listen to?

If there was a sign that said "No swimming" why would you do it anyway? You are disregarding a sign that is there for a reason. If one needs a laundry list of what not to do when going outside, please do the world a favor and don't leave your house.

The questions weren't ridiculous. You just know if you answered them honestly they would invalidate your argument.

 

[kallipolis]

Utterly unsupportable conclusion.

Everyone knows there are bull sharks in the ocean waters around Florida and beachgoing recreation is one of the state's largest attractions.

The issue here is a Disney operated resort that attracts families, including children who are not anticipating alligators in their immediate vicinity when renting property, and using beach facilities provided by Disney.

It would have been bad for business had Disney erected a sign stating that their holiday resort was built in the middle of an alligator infested zone....evidenced by an alligator seizing a child.

Even assuming tourists complied with the no swimming sign, confining their beach activities to tanning...there was also the risk of an alligator exiting the water to seize its prey from tourists relaxing on the beach unaware that an alligator was approaching them with deadly intent.

 

[xbuzzerx]

The questions weren't ridiculous. You just know if you answered them honestly they would invalidate your argument.

Your questions logically follow to exactly what I asked you and you ignored.

Should signs also give complete documentation of any and all possible animal, chemical, protozoan, viral, algae, fungal risks? Should they warn that you can drown? Should topographical maps be supplied showing the currents of the water throughout various phases of the moon and times of year?

How big do you want signs to be? And how heavily planted around the planet?

 

[BillyT]

Utterly unsupportable conclusion.

Everyone knows there are bull sharks in the ocean waters around Florida and beachgoing recreation is one of the state's largest attractions. The same is true of Great White populations around Australia and South Africa, which are again major beachgoing tourist destinations.

And yet when there is a shark attack, some subset of the population still reacts exactly as you can witness here. A sense of entitled outrage that there was a dangerous animal present in an uncontrolled body of water.

 

[xbuzzerx]

The issue here is a Disney operated resort that attracts families, including children who are not anticipating alligators in their immediate vicinity when renting property, and using beach facilities provided by Disney.

It would have been bad for business had Disney erected a sign stating that their holiday resort was built in the middle of an alligator infested zone....evidenced by an alligator seizing a child.

Even assuming tourists complied with the no swimming sign, confining their beach activities to tanning...there was also the risk of an alligator exiting the water to seize its prey from tourists relaxing on the beach unaware that an alligator was approaching them with deadly intent.

This is, as I already mentioned, a possible danger anywhere in the state. Including private backyards of homes with fences, into which gators have gotten into pools or killed pets on many occasions.

 

[Cormac135]

I ate the signs as well.

 

[kallipolis]

Your questions logically follow to exactly what I asked you and you ignored.

Should signs also give complete documentation of any and all possible animal, chemical, protozoan, viral, algae, fungal risks? Should they warn that you can drown? Should topographical maps be supplied showing the currents of the water throughout various phases of the moon and times of year?

How big do you want signs to be? And how heavily planted around the planet?

Disney was aware, or should have been aware of the presence of alligators in the zone that they were renting to tourists.

Due diligence demands that the site operator ensures that their customers are aware of the risk to their lives, by advising their customers to remain vigilant.

 

[kallipolis]

This is, as I already mentioned, a possible danger anywhere in the state. Including private backyards of homes with fences, into which gators have gotten into pools or killed pets on many occasions.

and lightening strikes, and rain falls,etc.....

but in this specific case the signs erected by Disney did not specify the real risk to human life, posed by alligators that Disney had to have been aware of. The child's death was the result of the action of an alligator, that could have also occurred on the beach where alligators also hunt prey. No sign covered that prospect.