"21 detained under suspicion of being gay"

[Apollo]

I'm having trouble figuring out what you're talking about.....

Islam was born in blood, spread by blood... and those methods are affirmed as legitimate by the founder, the guy with the final word, who himself lied, stole, and murdered to get things rolling.

Chrisitanity was born in the blood of Christ. And spread in the blood of those who refused to believe in the teachings of the Bible.

Difference, Christians did it without Jesus. Of course, that justifies their actions though. That is what I seem to get from what your saying

 

[Apollo]

they would have a hard time convincing me that the land belongs to islam or christainity or buddism (just put this in to muddy the water).

Buddhism has no stake in Jerusalem, why would that matter to them?

 

[Telstra]

Buddhism has no stake in Jerusalem, why would that matter to them?

didn't i say to muddy the water ?

anyway as i said before, religion has no territory.
territory belongs to NO religion.

 

[TX-Beau]

Is that lie still being told?
Constantine had nothing to do with what went into the New Testament, and the contents of the Old Testament had been settled before those of the New. Neither was done by any "select group"; in the case of the Old Testament, scholars got together (notably at Jamnia) and discussed what all rabbis recognized as being from God, and pretty much just wrote the list down, from what everyone agreed on to what almost everyone to most to many to some. Sort of the same thing happened with the New Testament, though a bit more rapidly; lists of what books were trusted ("received") were circulating before all the Apostles were dead! Christian churches and bishops kept on comparing lists, until there was a very thorough consensus, with the result that before Constantine was even born, there was one list (with some considerations noted), settled and closed.

For the New Testament it was a fascinating process. The course I took concerning it was a headache (never less than 1000 pages reading in any of the ten weeks, and not all in English!), but was definitely a delight. It's too bad that most Christians never are told how it happened, but are left to believe it all came down special delivery or something.
It's even sadder that outfits like The History Channel are perpetrating falsehoods about it.

Dude, I don't say this often, but you're full of it. I don't believe you. I don't think you've studied any of this.

 

[Pushover]

Why don't we just damn the generalization and say that Christianity and Islam causes homophobia and a vast amount of religious intolerance?

 

[Críostóir]

The Saudis are our allies.

The Saudis are scum.

The allies of scum are scum.

We are scum as long as we keep them as allies.

The religious police must all die.

 

[Apollo]

Dude, I don't say this often, but you're full of it. I don't believe you. I don't think you've studied any of this.

It got it from a one sided documentary scewing the words inside the Quran to present it as a violent religion, meant to be violent. Nothing further from the truth.

 

[Apollo]

Why don't we just damn the generalization and say that Christianity and Islam causes homophobia and a vast amount of religious intolerance?

We havent been argueing that point for about 3 or 4 pages now.

 

[Críostóir]

Corrected for the sake of accuracy and making sense

There's an internet shorthand for this sort of quasi-correction: FTFY, for "Fixed That For You." It can be anything from funny to really rude and obnoxious. (No judgement on this case; just thought you might like to know the shorthand.)

Sharia law is just completely messed up altogether because it is based on an extremist view of the religion.

Actually I've heard an Islamic scholar saying that historically Shari'a varied a lot from place to place, and that it's a principle of enlightened Islam (which has existed for hundreds of years) that Shari'a exists to serve the people, not the other way around.

It's a peculiarly radical Islamist/Wahhabist/Al Qaeda kind of idea of Shari'a that's inflexible and murderously cruel. Just for an unusual perspective on it.

 

[Apollo]

Thanks, and I hope you atleast took a few seconds to consider the correction I made. A religion is a set of ideas and principals, PEOPLE twist those ideas to suit their bigotry and use it as an excuse to commit homocide. This is rarely through direct translation but through manipulation of the text.

Many people flat out ignore and implications of self-righteousness in their respective religions, even if there is a leader who endorsed murder, that doesn't mean everyone in that religion follows him word for word.

I will now let my associate Marley take over the reigns of this thread to set people straight.

 

[Apollo]

Oh hell naw, your knowledge of history will be more respected than my "give everyone a chance" "there are always exceptions" arguments, that are easily shot down by a CNN article about atleast a few extremists or an NY Post article about a few Christians who oppose gay marriage. I think this is hands down one of the most intelligent discussions about religion on JUB I've ever heard, usually people just make sweeping generalizations (often incorrect ones) about the given religion, this is the first time I've ever seen people get into the history and core of these religions, I've learned more in 2 pages here than I have overall since I joined.

the fundamentalist atheists are sleeping right now. i am sure by tomorrow evening, they will have had their say..

 

[Kulindahr]

Yes, Jesus is the prophet of Christianity not Islam. Muslims accept that fact. Mohammed is their prophet though, not Jesus. They recognize Jesus and his powers and accomplishments, but not their prophet.

Thats why it is called Islam and not Christianity.

Jesus is not a prophet to Christians; he is to Muslims -- that's easy enough to find in Wikipedia, BTW. Muslims count John the Baptist, Elijah, and others as prophets as well.

Yeah, I mentioned how they all worship the same God.

I wasn't talking about that; I meant that each rests on its own single individual. No other religion really does that. Buddhism comes close, but even the Buddha isn't regarded as being as authoritative as Jesus or Mohammed in their respective spheres.

I think you'd have a hard time convincing Jews and Christians of that either.

I think you'd have a hard time convincing Christians that there's any such thing as "Christian territory"... except maybe the residents of Vatican City, but there are a lot of Christians who would vehemently disagree about that.

Chrisitanity was born in the blood of Christ. And spread in the blood of those who refused to believe in the teachings of the Bible.

Christianity was spread mostly in the blood of those who believed it and spread it. The one substantial exception to that is the conquest of the Western hemisphere, especially that which fell to Roman Catholic rulers' forces. Christianity at the time was often a tool of Empire, though less so for most Protestants, and even many Christians recognized that as being wrong

Difference, Christians did it without Jesus. Of course, that justifies their actions though. That is what I seem to get from what your saying

It doesn't justify anything. I'm trying to point out a serious difference between the actual religions as opposed to the behavior of some of the followers. Both these religions focus in/on single individuals, and those individuals are the final word in each. In Christianity, the final word is a Man who told His followers to not pursue temporal power, to not make use of the sword, to turn the other cheek, to be at peace with all men -- but in Islam the final word is a man who murdered, lied, robbed, and urged others to do the same in order to install the rule of Allah on all mankind.

Dude, I don't say this often, but you're full of it. I don't believe you. I don't think you've studied any of this.

You're entertaining.

If I had a clue which box it was in, I'd dig out my term paper for the course, and type it out here -- all five dozen pages, with several hundred footnotes in Greek, Latin, Syriac (I hated that one!), Aramaic, German (too bloody many religious historians wrote in that language) and even English.

 

[Kulindahr]

The Saudis are our allies.

The Saudis are scum.

The allies of scum are scum.

We are scum as long as we keep them as allies.

The religious police must all die.

YAY!!!

I like that.
But the worst thing we could do to them is develop alternatives to oil, and stop buying from them -- all at once.

Dude, I don't say this often, but you're full of it. I don't believe you. I don't think you've studied any of this.

It got it from a one sided documentary scewing the words inside the Quran to present it as a violent religion, meant to be violent. Nothing further from the truth.

Uh, Wolf, are you reading the same post I am?
Are you really saying I got my course in New Testament Canonization from a documentary about the Koran???

 

[BigBoss]

I'm having trouble figuring out what you're talking about.....

Islam was born in blood, spread by blood... and those methods are affirmed as legitimate by the founder, the guy with the final word, who himself lied, stole, and murdered to get things rolling.

When did he lie, or stole or murdered? your accusations should come with some references. He did not spread Islam through blood shedding. He ran a war to gain control of Meccah which infact is the holiest place for Muslims, he did that after "Non-Believers" broke the pact to live in Harmony and peace. Should search for a pact called "Sullay Hudiabeia" which was b/w Muslims and the Non-Muslims, which was later violated by non-Muslims, which gave rise to a war, when he gained the control of Meccah he simply forgave those who wished not to fight anymore. He forgave the persons who killed his Uncle, who was like father to him, and those people who were forgiven later on became the cause of killing Prophet's family.

Go through some detail history to find out that within Muslims wars were fought. Why? the reason is simple , to gain Power, which ultimately came into hands of those who didn't deserve it. They were the one who conducted spreading Islam through swords. Read articles about Umar, the second Caliph,,he was a man of Violent nature, his conducts were violent not because that he was Muslim, he acted in the same barbarian way before accepting Islam. Read about "Abbasi Caliphs" and you will find out that they are decedents of the same people forgiven by Prophet (PBUH) and they were the one who started the killing spree, the war within Muslim world and other things that you blame on Islam. Islam as a religion has nothing to do with the acts of those people who were craving for Power, and used the name of Islam to Justify their end.

How about leaving Islam and Prophet Muhammad out of all this? They have nothing to do with Saudi Govt. or Osama Bin Ladin


Try not to criticize my religion because of acts of those Arabs. I can't say anything about Jesus as he is considered a messenger of God and in no way we muslims are allowed to say anything against him

 

[Kulindahr]

Why don't we just damn the generalization and say that Christianity and Islam causes homophobia and a vast amount of religious intolerance?

If you want to be picky, neither Christianity nor Islam "causes" homophobia:

1. The proper definition of the word means fear of homosexuals/homosexuality, and in my experience that comes naturally to a lot of people.

2. As far as the extended meaning, of hating/despising homosexuality/homosexuals, neither Islam nor Christianity has that in its own proper texts -- it's imported from the Jewish scriptures (though even there it has to be blown up and expanded to get what the fundies make of it).

3. I don't Christianity causes religious intolerance, because that's just not there in the words of Jesus. But it sure does seem to make good soil for it... or is attractive to people who want to be intolerant...

 

[BigBoss]

Damn i am so unlucky to be born as "Gay Muslim:,,,as the "Gay" thing is not accepted by my religion and the "Muslim" thing is not accepted by my "Gay community".

We are the one criticized by both sides.

 

[Kulindahr]

There's an internet shorthand for this sort of quasi-correction: FTFY, for "Fixed That For You." It can be anything from funny to really rude and obnoxious. (No judgement on this case; just thought you might like to know the shorthand.)

Whoa! Suddenly I understand a cartoon I saw a while back.
Isn't it fun learning things you had no idea were coming because they have nothing to do with the actual topic?

Actually I've heard an Islamic scholar saying that historically Shari'a varied a lot from place to place, and that it's a principle of enlightened Islam (which has existed for hundreds of years) that Shari'a exists to serve the people, not the other way around.

That's pretty evident from the Wikipedia article, especially if you pursue some of the sources.
That principle of enlightened Islam, BTW, is lifted from the "prophet Jesus", who said of the pinnacle of Old Testament law, the Sabbath day, that "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath".
That's one reason I say that a Reformation fueled by principles from this particular acknowledged prophet is the only thing that can save Islam: it's not that Islam full of mercy and acceptance, etc. doesn't exist, it's that such isn't the heart and core of Islam... and also that something needs to happen to banish the bloody nature imparted by the founder.

It's a peculiarly radical Islamist/Wahhabist/Al Qaeda kind of idea of Shari'a that's inflexible and murderously cruel. Just for an unusual perspective on it.

Yeah, so who do our enlightened and wise leaders pick for allies?

 

[BigBoss]

Read the damn post #125 ,,i need answers for that from you Kulindahr

 

[Telstra]

Damn i am so unlucky to be born as "Gay Muslim:,,,as the "Gay" thing is not accepted by my religion and the "Muslim" thing is not accepted by my "Gay community".

We are the one criticized by both sides.

LOL, where is muslim porn? unless there is muslim porn ... i view islam with caution.

*god have nothing against porn or multiple sex partners u know.

 

[BigBoss]

LOL, where is muslim porn? unless there is muslim porn ... i view islam with caution.

*god have nothing against porn or multiple sex partners u know.

Did you read the word "Born" As porn,,,damn you are so horny right now.