A Question for you Pro-Heathcare Reformers

[opinterph]

I have an old high school friend who lives in San Francisco …

Her annual housing cost is $42,000 -- two bedrooms, small dining area, medium-sized living room.

Location depends a lot. At $50k/yr in that area, you'd be in poverty. At $100k/yr you'd be struggling.

There are a lot of fancy apartments in San Francisco and the demand for high-end units helps push the average rent there to a whopping $2,951 (December 2009).

But it is also instructive to note that the median SF apartment rents for $928 in this city where the median income is $54,886. [Link]

Your friend’s $3,500 per month apartment is an example of either living a wealthy lifestyle or someone who is getting ripped off.

http://www.move.com/apartmentsforrent-search/san-francisco_ca?dist=5

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

The taxpayer isn't paying for a good number of free clinics. There are several churches which run such, notably the Seventh-Day Adventists.

Yes, and who pays for the tax breaks given to churches?

Me. And You.

We pay with our taxes, we pay with our own rights and freedoms when Churches bully their mindless followers into donating money to take away our rights and fight things like "health care" so they can keep desperate people coming to their "free clinics" so they can be preached to and indoctrinated.

So to me, the bill that was passed was a wimp-out.

I do agree... I think it should have gone further and i'm sure we'll see many additions in the next few years. But this is a good start.

 

[justapixel]

I am not reading through nearly 40 replies in here, but unless you are making $200,000 a year as a Single filer, your taxes aren't going up a penny.

I fixed your typo of $280k to 200k.

Everyone regardless of income will be subject to the following new taxes:

10% tanning tax
limit of $2500 in Flexible spending account before it was set by employer (unlimited)


Obama lied when he said that there will be no new taxes if your earn less than 200k.

 

[NickCole]

I fixed your typo of $280k to 200k.

Everyone regardless of income will be subject to the following new taxes:

10% tanning tax
limit of $2500 in Flexible spending account before it was set by employer (unlimited)


Obama lied when he said that there will be no new taxes if your earn less than 200k.

And the higher Medicare tax won't only be on single filers earning $200k and up, which is estimated to be about a million individuals, but also on couples filing jointly who earn $250k, which is estimated to be about 4 million couples. That means if one earns $100k and the other earns $150k, they'll be hit with higher taxes as well.

In addition there's an increase in capital gains taxes (a really stupid idea at a time our economy needs people to invest - ObamaCo should be creating incentives, not reasons to avoid investing) and higher taxes on income from interest, dividends, rents and royalties.

A lot of people earning less than $200k will pay higher taxes.

 

[JB3]

It really depends on the lifestyle one wants to live.

If you can barely make ends meet at a household income of 110-130k, something is wrong.

Not when you've got 3 kids, all of whom are through college (with $60k in loan obligations PER CHILD), you have a mortgage, car expenses etc. If you think it isn't possible to barely make ends meet, you're living in a fucking dreamworld.

 

[JB3]

The reality is if you really knew me and what activism I am party to you would probably smack your mouth right now, or someone who really knows me would do it for you.

Why do you constantly bring this up? No one's forcing you to do it, and just because you do doesn't give you a right to behave like an ass towards other members.

 

[opinterph]

And the higher Medicare tax won't only be on single filers earning $200k and up, which is estimated to be about a million individuals, but also on couples filing jointly who earn $250k, which is estimated to be about 4 million couples. That means if one earns $100k and the other earns $150k, they'll be hit with higher taxes as well.

Couples are not required to file jointly, but I suppose that does not disprove the point you are making.

I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes. – Barack Obama; Dover, New Hampshire.. September 12, 2008

 

[Edward Twinkletoes]

Well your very stupid older friends who feel they don't need insurance better hope they're never in a car accident.. or get cancer... or are mugged... or crushed by a falling tree.

Because right now.. when those things happen to the uninsured... YOU AND ME are paying for their care. THAT is why they should be required to pay their own way.

Well, when insurance companies have to cover you, they're going to start objecting to risky behavior of all kinds because, obviously, they lose if you fuck up and hurt yourself, ruin your health with bad food or contract a disease they have to pay for for the rest of your life. So you can look forward to the government telling you what you can and can't do forever when the insurance people start loosing money and they start mooing for the government to ban basically all dangerous/risky/whatever behavior/food/drink/you name it. You sound reasonably intelligent so I'm sure you know this is coming but perhaps you should actually act like you know it.

This precedent means the government will bring it's big, muddy boots deep into your personal life and they will do whatever they damn well please. So you might want to think about what you're supporting here. These people are not our friends. This is going to be a disaster for anyone who likes to make their own choices. You know it, I know it and everyone who has at least 2 brain cells knows it.

This is not universal healthcare. It's still a cutthroat business (Even moreso because it backs business people into a corner) and you will not be a popular person in this system if you're not a perfectly compliant cash cow. This is worse than anything the Republicans ever inflicted on us (despite them trying their best). This is just the tip of the iceberg. This will change everything in this country and a lot of it is going to be things people never expected and don't want. So, really. Feel free to be obnoxious about it. You won't be laughing for long.

 

[NickCole]

The tea party movement is made up of white people, period, and it's frankly amusing to watch people try and squirm out of it.

Racist propaganda.

There are many black conservatives, black Republicans. And there are many blacks supporting the tea party movement. Your dismissing these Americans because they don't fit what you want them to be is demeaning to blacks and their right to form their own opinion, speak out and participate according to their own beliefs. Shame on you.



http://www.bookerrising.net/2009/09/tea-party-protest-in-washington-dcand.html


http://www.black-and-right.com/2009/09/12/can-you-hear-us-now/

 

[opinterph]

CE&P Posting Guidelines:

Do not disrupt the flow of conversation by making statements or insinuations that are deliberately inflammatory or which expand a disagreement from one discussion to another.

Do not insult or impugn the character of another JUBer through posts, threads, PMs, or comments. If you find yourself having difficulty refraining from insulting, baiting or other negative impulses, please log off for a while to calm down.

 

[NickCole]

You know. All you know of me is an avatar, which is all I really know of you, [Text: Removed by Moderator]

My black friends, here and elsewhere, would never call me a racist, and I have many of them. But I'm watching you defend the rampant racism in American conservative movements, [Text: Removed by Moderator]

Why don't you invite some black Jubbers to read this conversation and see what they think. I dare you.

Or would you rather not?

If you don't, I will. So let me know.

It's interesting how often you rely on what you say others think of you, and try to draw in others to defend you, rather than letting the strength or weakness of your own words define you and your argument.

 

[JB3]

I bring it up when someone is being an ass towards me.

Thats an, ehm...curious...defense mechanism. You act as if we owe you something because of it, and that it somehow excuses you from being called out for making outrageous statements.

 

[NickCole]

I knew you'd be afraid of the opinions of non-white people. That being said, I'm going right ahead and writing PMs.

LOL!

Sweetie, I'm not afraid of anybody's opinion.

And no matter what anybody thinks, the pictures and commentary of blacks who are conservative, and the many who attended a tea party, remains the truth. Oh and btw, while you're PMing your selected "non-white people," be aware that placing a higher value on the opinion of people of one race over that of another race is, um, racist.

 

[justapixel]

Couples are not required to file jointly, but I suppose that does not disprove the point you are making.

The tax kicks in at 125k for married taxpayers filing separately.

I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes. – Barack Obama; Dover, New Hampshire.. September 12, 2008

Obama is a liar. Dont you get that???

http://www.journalofaccountancy.com/Web/20102740.htm

For married individuals filing a joint return and surviving spouses, the threshold amount is $250,000; for married taxpayers filing separately, it is $125,000; and for other individuals it is $200,000.

 

[opinterph]

The tax kicks in at 125k for married taxpayers filing separately.

I didn’t realize that. Thanks for the link!

 

[VanHiscers]

Criticize Obama = racist.

Academically, this is a very very weak argument, even weaker than bringing in what others think of oneself... Barack Obama is a president of a big country, all he does is to be criticized, so everybody becomes racist according to what you've said?

People criticized him because he promised to close Guantanamo Bay Prison, but he hasn't, he promised to withdraw the American troops from Iraq, but he hasn't... It's all about what he does, not the color of his skin.

Nevertheless, I dare to wonder how many African-American voters support him just because of the color of his skin? If you think Obama really stands for the African-Americans in the U.S., then you are pathetically wrong--he stands for whoever helped him during the campaign. In other words, Obama is not the first African-American president of the U.S., he's just another American president who happens to be black.

This thread, however, is not about racist problems, so about the health care bill, as a foreign student from China, I agree on it, but I'm to lazy to explain, this video stands for my point of view.



If you can't see it, here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF-W9zcwg2M

 

[Jack Springer]

Not when racism is a personal issue it isn't

I'm really not stupid, so I don't know why you think this defense is doing you any good. I know you are afraid of their opinions. You may think you are hiding it, but hon, it shines through ever the clearer.

Like I said, my non-white friends would never call me racist in a million years and yes by coincidence they all happen agree with me politically. Racism is rife in American conservatism. You will just have to square with that some day.

JockBoy - I really wish you'd make some conservative friends. If you associate only with people that agree with you - you've never grow or learn. There is so much out there - I wish for you to experience more, enjoy life . . . it might surprise you that conservatives are the not the evil and hateful people that you've been led to believe they are.

If you have no conservative friends -- how do you know that racism is rife in American conservatism? Don't rely on TV, the Internet, or politicians to tell you so -- go out and meet people outside your world.

 

[jackoroe]

My question was simple, and I was not asking for confirmation of my premise. I was asking for an explanation. To that point, I knew you'd be afraid of the opinions of non-white people. That being said, I'm going right ahead and writing PMs.

I'm not asking people what they think of me personally, nice trying to frame it as such though. You must really think I'm stupid.

We are talking about the tea party movement and the fact that it is monolithically made up of White people, which conservatives either routinely fail to explain or concoct a cockamamie defense that reflects poorly on their reasoning skills.

So, I guess you should call this African American citizen and let him know he shouldn't be hanging with the Tea Party . So much for the monolithic white Tea Party movement. You really need to get out more often and actually experience the world.

 

[jackoroe]

Maybe if you'd take the time and do a google search like I did, you'd see the truth for yourself. There's dozens of black folks who are tired of this government run amuck. Here's your post on the subject.

Originally Posted by JockBoy87
The tea party movement is made up of white people, period, and it's frankly amusing to watch people try and squirm out of it.

It's not made up of only white people. You're wrong.

 

[Kulindahr]

And some blacks, no matter how much you may need to believe they don't, do vote with conservatives and Republicans. I'm pretty sure, for example, the Chairman of the Republican Party votes with conservatives and Republicans.

So do these folks: http://www.nbra.info/

There's a totl gem on that site:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence; from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependency back again into bondage."
- Anonymous: Unverified Source