Apple introduces iOS4 & iPhone 4

[braex27]

"Apple" is a rather polarising topic. Oh well.

 

[hotatlboi]

what application model? pay for "apps"? hu? interface? touchscreens were around before the iPhone. even on phones.

Look man, if your grudge against Apple is so great that you can't even bring yourself to recognize how much the iphone changed the smartphone space, I don't suppose anything I say will ever make sense to you.

Pretty much every touch screen smartphone on the market today has some kind of iphone inspired design.

it was the only general framework available then. meanwhile apple just restricted even the developers more in their choice of how they program the "apps"

LMFAO, you're telling me that being able to program native apps in C, C++, or Objective C with many APIs provided that poll hardware directly is more limiting than only having a JVM?

just wow man

so? windows for sure has the largest base of available software for any OS. does that make it better for a personal computer? nope.

I didn't point that out to make a value judgment about the iphone being better or worse in general. My point was to your argument about how the negative on the iphone is that you can't run custom stuff out of the box. What I was basically saying is, because so many apps are available for the iphone, the need to run custom stuff is automatically reduced for many things.

My bank has a mobile app for the iphone that lets me check my accounts on the go, doesn't exist for android. Mobile versions of several desktop apps I use are available for the iphone, not for android. etc etc. Sure I can run custom stuff on Android, but the iphone ecosystem is so expansive that going with Android means I get a lot less stuff up front, and the need to come up with something custom (thus meaning more work for me) increases. Further, if I absolutely need to run something custom on the iphone, I can jailbreak it which takes all of 5 minutes.

To sum up, I'm not saying the iphone is better in general. Use whatever works for you. I'm just trying to get you to understand why it's not automatically irrational for many people to say the iphone works better for them.

 

[Corny]

Like 95% of computer OSs on Earth. Without commercially protected OSs, computers wouldn't be a shadow of what they are today.

well works the other way around. without unix computers never wouldn't even exist today as we know them.

I confess to not know enough about the history to comment. Off to Wikipedia I go!

simple .. kde is open source - if you change open source software it has to be open source again. that's why the SCO ceo called it a poisonous license
so apple quickly needed a browser, they took khtml because they didn't like mozilla. but since khtml is OS, webkit had to be OS as well.
the thought behind this is that people who benefit from OS software should have to contribute to them as well. that also got apple into a fight with the kde people because the "back channel" from apple was rather bad. however this is settled today.

So, you want Apple to update Firefox, Chrome and IE?

hu? nope .. FF and Chrome are already quite good and better than Safari at html5. probably they just do not let them on the html5 pages to prevent you from noticing that.

here is a nice illustration:
https://i.imgur.com/cT08B.png

also in this "showcase"
http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/video/
they purposedly crippled the .mov container so that other browser will not play the video. some people mirrored this and used a correct container and it will work in other browsers as well. funny thing .. on their trailers website they use correct containers as well.
a propos .. quicktime? why are they using quicktime? i thought this was about open html5 standards, whoops again closed source here.

Characterise OS X however you like, but there are several million Unix kernels on Earth today that wouldn't be there without Apple computers.

so? but it is no unix anymore. it is no open source kernel anymore. that does not help our case at all.

And STILL no custom SMS alert tones? Seriously?

lol i didn't even know that most people i know with iPhones always have them on vibrate anyway.

LMFAO, you're telling me that being able to program native apps in C, C++, or Objective C with many APIs provided that poll hardware directly is more limiting than only having a JVM?

nope .. i said that back then java was the only thing available. now since smart phones are like full computers and there is a known API kinda everything could work. but apple is restricting you because of political reasons. see the flash builder 4 story.

What I was basically saying is, because so many apps are available for the iphone, the need to run custom stuff is automatically reduced for many things.

but this is not about some silly pull a revolver trigger apps, this is about doing what you want to a device that you own. apple tells us that android is bad because there are apps with porn? so what? if i want apps with porn it's my decision. meanwhile apple rejects german newspapers because they had a visible female breast in it one day (which caused a still running anti-censorship and monopoly investigation against them). sure it is *their* store they can decided what is in it. but it is your device, and their store is the only way to get something on it. you guys run amok once your government wants to control anything, but you happily leave it to apple to decide what you are allowed to see ..

Further, if I absolutely need to run something custom on the iphone, I can jailbreak it which takes all of 5 minutes.

but you are not allowed to do it. and through the act of jailbreaking you just admit that you do not agree with apples politics here ..

To sum up, I'm not saying the iphone is better in general. Use whatever works for you. I'm just trying to get you to understand why it's not automatically irrational for many people to say the iphone works better for them.

See? And I am not saying that the iPhone is a bad piece of hardware, or "iOS" bad in general. But is has several flaws, most of them due to apple policy. And it is really scary how unreflected and how uncritical so many people accept everything as perfect, jobs as the messiah and the truth only as apple tells it.

 

[hotatlboi]

but you are not allowed to do it. and through the act of jailbreaking you just admit that you do not agree with apples politics here ..

Sure, that's one thing I don't like about it. I'm not sure what you are saying. I shouldn't use a product because there's one thing I don't like about it? Then I wouldn't be able to use anything.

Overall, the iphone works better for me. There's other things I wouldn't like about Android if I used it.

And it is really scary how unreflected and how uncritical so many people accept everything as perfect, jobs as the messiah and the truth only as apple tells it.

I find it scary how many people think that anyone who uses an Apple product is automatically like this.

I know a lot of people who dislike many of the Apple policies you mentioned. I know more people that have jailbroken their iphones than haven't (even non-tech people, since it is so easy to do). I know many Apple users who think that Apple's aversion to porn and the other things you mentioned are downright silly.

I'm trying to get you to understand that it really is a small minority of Apple users who think Apple is the messiah or always does things right. Considering anyone perfect is quite ridiculous.

None of that changes the fact that as a whole, the iphone works better for me. It has the programs I use, I like the interface, it works well with my computer (a Mac), etc.

Just because someone likes Apple products does not mean they are delusional or that they suck Jobs' cock on everything.

I dislike this because what you are doing is basically the same thing as the people who think that just because you are gay you must necessarily act/talk like a female or behave in a certain way. You are letting a particularly visible minority define your perceptions of an entire large community. In doing so you are way overstating the size of that minority.

 

[andysayshi]

^ Great post!

The main reason I bother posting in these kind of discussions is because it really shits me that as soon as I speak positively about an Apple product I get labelled as a fanboi - like I'm some deluded, all-style-no-substance robot that bows to the will of Jobs.

I am a technology professional, and I choose Apple products when they serve my purposes. I use Windows and Linux almost every day as well, so I'm very aware of the other platforms and possibilities around me. I make educated, informed decisions about the technology that does the tasks I need it to do. And I recommend Apple to non-tech friends because I KNOW, from lots of personal experience, that people with Apple stuff need less support.

Do I like Apple stuff? Sure I do, I think they're a clever company that care more about usability and user experience than most others. But I'll happily list you a hundred things I hate about Apple boxes too.

It just insults me when the fanboi label gets pulled out EVERY TIME somebody says they like something Apple. I find the anti-Apple fanbois far more rabid, and far more numerous, than the Apple ones.

 

[Paws]

2. The Amiga ran off mains power and weighed about 10kgs, not counting the monitor or peripherals. The iPhone weighs 183 grams and can play video continuously for 10 hours without being plugged into a wall. One photo taken in an iPhone wouldn't fit in the 512Kb of RAM in an Amiga 500. They are hardly comparable devices.

What does the weight and power supply of a device back then (where there wasn't "nano-technology" like today) have to do with the features of internal hardware, chip-sets and operating system? Nothing. The Amiga has multitasking since 1985, it was an innovation for the technology back then and yet no other computer producers were genius enough (or just too lazy) to achieve the same, even though Commodore showed them how.

Don't try to argue with me about Amigas

 

[Corny]

I know a lot of people who dislike many of the Apple policies you mentioned. I know more people that have jailbroken their iphones than haven't (even non-tech people, since it is so easy to do). I know many Apple users who think that Apple's aversion to porn and the other things you mentioned are downright silly.

well that's a good thing I suppose.

So why the fuck are you supporting a company whose whole policies and businessmodell you do not like???

I dislike this because what you are doing is basically the same thing as the people who think that just because you are gay you must necessarily act/talk like a female or behave in a certain way.

well continuing that analogy, what you are doing is basically the same thing as donating money to some extremist church because their church buildings are the nicest and have the tastiest altar bread. meanwhile they hate you for loving another man, but for you it is just easy not to tell them and keep supporting them, because you want to enjoy that tasty altar bread. also they sell you the altar bread as the next best thing after fresh bread, but in reality they just stole the recipe from another more liberal church and added some food coloring

 

[andysayshi]

What does the weight and power supply of a device back then (where there wasn't "nano-technology" like today) have to do with the features of internal hardware, chip-sets and operating system? Nothing. The Amiga has multitasking since 1985, it was an innovation for the technology back then and yet no other computer producers were genius enough (or just too lazy) to achieve the same, even though Commodore showed them how.

Don't try to argue with me about Amigas

I used Amiga 2000s when I was in film school.

You've reinforced my point. There is no comparison between the devices. Different devices, different purposes, different times.

The simple multitasking that iPhone has been capable of since version 1 - iPod music playback, for example - is far more advanced than anything the Amiga could do in its totality. A single frame from the 920x640 18bit display of an iPhone 4 wouldn't fit into the 512Kb of RAM in an Amiga 2000. An iPhone has about 500 times more RAM than that.

The basic point is that iPhone (version 1, even!) CAN multitask in a far greater way than an Amiga, thus the comparison is pretty pointless.

 

[andysayshi]

well continuing that analogy, what you are doing is basically the same thing as donating money to some extremist church because their church buildings are the nicest and have the tastiest altar bread. meanwhile they hate you for loving another man, but for you it is just easy not to tell them and keep supporting them, because you want to enjoy that tasty altar bread. also they sell you the altar bread as the next best thing after fresh bread, but in reality they just stole the recipe from another more liberal church and added some food coloring

Yada yada yada. Yves started a thread announcing the release of a new iPhone. He didn't pass an opinion, call for praise, or demand compliance. It's a pretty valid thread - the iPhone release appeared in almost every news source on Earth.

The next three posts were unprovoked anti-Apple rants. And two of them were yours.

It's pretty clear who the religious zealots in this forum are.

 

[MercuryJones]

See? And I am not saying that the iPhone is a bad piece of hardware, or "iOS" bad in general. But is has several flaws, most of them due to apple policy. And it is really scary how unreflected and how uncritical so many people accept everything as perfect, jobs as the messiah and the truth only as apple tells it.

But no one said it's perfect, no one even said it's the best or that others are wrong to not want it for themselves.

The only religious devotion here is to bashing Apple or those who enjoy it.

This is just a continuation of the quotes I posted earlier from the other thread - there are numerous posts here insulting Apple users with a fundamentalists fervor, but no Apple users bashing anyone else based on the OS or the OS they use.

Dude, it's a gadget, not a religion. People use the one that works best for them. It's just that simple.

 

[Corny]

The next three posts were unprovoked anti-Apple rants. And two of them were yours.

It's pretty clear who the religious zealots in this forum are.

hu what? this is not the "unreflective cheering of any company PR" forum. he posted news about a product, i added my opinion. far far away from a rant. of course the apple zealots immediately jumped on my throat, because you are not allowed to dare to say anything or *gasp* have an opinion against apple
do you see my jumping on the apple fanbois threads whenever the people post their rants here? or on all the silly advise for people that when some software or function does nto work and the apple brigade comes along and suggest the poor guy to buy a new apple system for 2.5 grand? nope.

http://imgur.com/Q44KW.png

 

[andysayshi]

Can you demonstrate a single recent thread from this forum that's been derailed by "fanbois"?

Coz I can show you two or three within the past month that have been strangled by the "I-hate-Apple" crew.

 

[andysayshi]

And just to keep things light... if you're gonna make fun of the iPhone, at least find something relevant to JUB.

 

[MercuryJones]

Can you demonstrate a single recent thread from this forum that's been derailed by "fanbois"?

Coz I can show you two or three within the past month that have been strangled by the "I-hate-Apple" crew.

Indeed. As I posted earlier, in the one and only Apple-related thread I participated in not one Apple user said their choice was the best for anyone but themselves, or put down anyone else's choice, but these things were said by others about Apple or Apple users:

"I think what you meant to say is your impressed everyone with your total doucheness"

"it takes a fanboy to be impressed at Steve Jobs"

"Apple says "Think different"...to a clone army of fanboys"

"i can only hope when Steve Jobs dies, his fanboys will commit mass-suicide en-suite"

"Fanboys can't conceive anything if it hasn't been thought of by Steve rimJobs first."

"Apple decided multitasking wasn't important because their fanboys don't have the IQ to do two things at once."

Where is the purported "only righteous path" I'm told Apple users claim to possess?

 

[Corny]

I am talking about me here and not others. I said what I liked about the iPhone and what I do not like. Nobody of you could accept that You had to try to tell me that I am wrong not liking the OS - what did you expect? That I do not have a foundation for my opinion and would say "oops you are right?" no I elaborated and explained my opinion. Which everybody had to challenge again. Yeah .. we got into a discussion, yeah I started it because I dared to disagree. And that's why people do not like the fanbois

The other threads that I mentioned didn't get derailed. Because people ignore the "apple is the solution for everything" posts and just go on.

 

[MercuryJones]

I, for one, never told you or anyone else they were wrong in not liking Apple products.

There are some here who seem positively obsessed with other people liking Apple products, the same way a bunch of anti-gay Evangelicals are obsessed with gay people marrying each other. Then they prey end they're being oppressed by others, just because those others are doing something they don't like.

It's a big chip on their shoulders that makes no sense to me -- why care so much about other people's personal choices?

 

[hotatlboi]

So why the fuck are you supporting a company whose whole policies and businessmodell you do not like???

I'm not sure what you are saying. I shouldn't use a product because there's one thing I don't like about it?

I guess that is what you are saying. And it's so absurd that I doubt I can explain it any better than repeating what I already said.

I use it because, as I said, if I followed that kind of logic:

Then I wouldn't be able to use anything.

well continuing that analogy, what you are doing is basically the same thing as donating money to some extremist church because their church buildings are the nicest and have the tastiest altar bread. meanwhile they hate you for loving another man, but for you it is just easy not to tell them and keep supporting them, because you want to enjoy that tasty altar bread. also they sell you the altar bread as the next best thing after fresh bread, but in reality they just stole the recipe from another more liberal church and added some food coloring

The bolded is where your analogy breaks down. Apple is hardly extremist in the way it has its phone setup. As I tried to explain to you, there are MANY other phones that are even more restricted in terms of what you can load on them. Apple just isn't the most permissive in their policy. Big fucking deal, you act like this makes them the devil incarnate or something.

 

[hotatlboi]

You had to try to tell me that I am wrong not liking the OS

False. Rather the reverse. No one in this thread said you were wrong for not liking the iphone or anything Apple related, or that you were not entitled to your personal opinion on any of it. Please don't put words in other people's mouths they did not say.

What I and others have been saying is that some of your ideas for why others LIKE the iphone are somewhat distorted.

You are the one that seems to be unwilling to accept that others might simply like it on the merits, and that their fondness for it is not driven by some deeper need to be a cheerleader for Apple on everything.

I have not once in this thread questioned why you do not like the iphone, as far as I am concerned that is your opinion. You have several times asked with incredulity how I can possibly like a device just because I don't consider it perfect (i.e. that I disagree with one aspect of it). You seem convinced that my liking the device is an error on my part. In effect you are telling me that i am wrong for liking it.

 

[Corny]

^ i am saying that your logic for liking it is flawed. anybody who tells me he doesn't care about the restrictions and politcal or ethical problems and still likes it .. well go ahead. you might appear as weird person to me, but i am tolerant. but if you tell me that you do NOT like this and that and apple politics but still support them by buying their stuff, i see something more amiss

 

[andysayshi]

You can argue till you're blue in the face with a Harley Davidson owner about their choice of motorbike. Harleys aren't the fastest, they aren't the most powerful, they aren't the most technologically advanced. Most Harley owners know it, but there's something about a Harley that just fits for them, despite what others perceive as flaws.