Everybody Knows You're Gay!

[braex27]

Everybody may already know but I stand by my decision to choose who to tell and when. None of my straight friends decided to tell me they're straight just because everyone knew or suspected.

 

[Lube]

Everybody may already know but I stand by my decision to choose who to tell and when. None of my straight friends decided to tell me they're straight just because everyone knew or suspected.

Your straight friends don't tell you who they're dating or who they have crushes on or who they think is hot? What do you guys talk about???

 

[Lube]

This thread really belongs in the Coming Out forum. There has been no name calling or negativity at all. Who moved it?

 

[Corny]

Have you ever had to try and PROVE you were gay to a friend, in a non sexual way?

That was an interesting afternoon.

nope. and now i have to think about how i would do so in a non-sexual way. maybe if we were in a cafe or so and i could tell him a little bit about each guy in there and what i noticed about him. you know .. things that straight guys usually don't pick up

let us hear the story of that afternoon

 

[Knucklehead]

You mean like the fact that cities were routinely publishing the names of gay men in newspapers to shame them?

Or no mainstream religions had started to embrace gay men yet?

Or gay-straight alliances at high schools were still a fantasy?

Or zero out of the 2400 students in my high school were 'out'?

Or that the norm for coming out was that you were thrown out of the house, your family refusing to ever contact you again?

Or the only portrayals of gays in Hollywood were very very negative?

Or that there were no 'out' celebrities? No Ellen, no Ricky Martin.

Or that the closest thing to a positive portrayal of a gay on TV was in Soap?

Or that it was perfectly acceptable for gays to be mocked and derided by comedians or in day to day conversation?

Or that there was much more violence directed at gays?

Or that Pride parades were in their infancy, mostly just in the biggest cities, and there was often demonstrations and violence? Or that it was a tough decision on whether to participate, because if your picture showed up in the newspaper or on TV you'd most likely be fired?

Or that there was not a single out gay person at the federal level, and only a couple in local municipalities?

Or that AIDS was this great unknown that was mysteriously decimating the gay population?

Or that most states had sodomy laws on the books, and you could be thrown in jail for being gay?


I mean, are you serious?

I remember as a kid,on the daytime talk shows, they would be interviewing a gay person,and under his name would be ''admitted homosexual.'' Or the guys that spoke from behind screen sillouettes..

 

[Audio Tech]

You mean like the fact that cities were routinely publishing the names of gay men in newspapers to shame them?

Or no mainstream religions had started to embrace gay men yet?

Or gay-straight alliances at high schools were still a fantasy?

Or zero out of the 2400 students in my high school were 'out'?

Or that the norm for coming out was that you were thrown out of the house, your family refusing to ever contact you again?

Or the only portrayals of gays in Hollywood were very very negative?

Or that there were no 'out' celebrities? No Ellen, no Ricky Martin.

Or that the closest thing to a positive portrayal of a gay on TV was in Soap?

Or that it was perfectly acceptable for gays to be mocked and derided by comedians or in day to day conversation?

Or that there was much more violence directed at gays?

Or that Pride parades were in their infancy, mostly just in the biggest cities, and there was often demonstrations and violence? Or that it was a tough decision on whether to participate, because if your picture showed up in the newspaper or on TV you'd most likely be fired?

Or that there was not a single out gay person at the federal level, and only a couple in local municipalities?

Or that AIDS was this great unknown that was mysteriously decimating the gay population?

Or that most states had sodomy laws on the books, and you could be thrown in jail for being gay?


I mean, are you serious?

Yep. Sadly, I was in my prime in the 80's and couldn't do anything about it. It was (for me) just too dangerous and it would have also cost me a very good job. Like Lube, I didn't come out until late in life.

And THEN everyone was sure I was straight. Huh... Seriously, everyone thought I was joking.

Lucky is this generation, with the changing world and the internet to bring us all together. I honestly wish I had been born 40 years later.

TODAY, Lube is right..... 30 to 40 years ago.... maybe not.

 

[Audio Tech]

For some of us, it isn't any easier coming out today. Many still face violence, discrimination and rejection from their families.

Sadly. And I hope in another generation this will all be a thing of the past.

 

[Hot White Trash]

I think Lube is right - overtime people figure it out. Its not that wherever you go people immediately know you're a fag, but people close to you, if they have even a little brains, figure it out (even in Germany where apparently no one can spot a fag or a nazi).

But coming out is a different matter. Its one thing to not deny it but another to just tell everyone you're gay. That strikes me as boring. I'd rather just let them see me with my bf (when I have one) and figure it out.

 

[ChickenGuy]

For all of my life up to a year ago, I had heaps of other issues that kept me closeted and in isolation - remote rural location, religious community, no friends, no work, depression, personality issues, a tendency to stay in the house. I was effectively 'quarantined' both physically and mentally. Yes, there was gay porn, but that was just a single-minded process. And I thought that was always the way it was going to be.

And then, late last year, I discovered these forums. I'd never even seen a forum before. And for the first time I saw PEOPLE who were gay and the LIVES they were leading and the HAPPINESS that it could bring - couples, dating, holidays, living together, friends, love, sex - all of it shown to me in their words by JUBbers. It was no longer about clips of porn on the computer, or fictional storylines on TV - it was REAL.

And it was only a few days afterwards that I began to feel a longing and a desire I had never felt before - to come out. Yes, it took me a further six months or so to work my way to do it, but I did, last April, to my family.

And now, I'm not in that isolated place any longer. I had the good fortune of having money and being able to move away from home. I found social groups, support networks, sporting organisations - I found out that staying away from home and finding a place of my own was NOT as difficult as I thought. And that's where I am right now, finding my own place in life. It's a journey of self-discovery, and it's all a bit unknown, but I'm very happy to be doing something different from the monotonous routine that I'd spent living for over a decade.

And the journey continues....

 

[BiMike]

CG I really admire you for what you have done in the past year! Wish you luck in finding the right place for you! How does Brighton compare to the Western Isle ? A little different I guess! BTW you cannot get much further away in the UK!

 

[altlover85]

Braex, why are you comparing gay vs. straight?

It may be similar in some places Travisevian, but you could move at some point to a more accepting place.

20 something years ago, you didn't have as many options.

 

[Nomenclature]

For some of us, it isn't any easier coming out today. Many still face violence, discrimination and rejection from their families.

Lube's heart really is in the right place and I respect him for that, but I really wish he would acknowledge what you've just said, Travisevian.


Today, it IS still a big issue to be out at work, at school and at home. It DOES cause problems, and thousands of young gay people are depressed, alone or even suicidal because of these issues. . .which is the reason there are outreach charities, centers, telephone hot-lines and websites for GLBT Youth.


For example:

"Kids are coming out in greater numbers as they see themselves accepted and represented on TV and in movies, but they’re still being kicked out of their homes or running away and living on the streets. We need to make sure we’re taking care of them. This is the next generation of the LGBT community."

From the same article:

The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force reports that there are between 15,000 and 20,000 homeless youths in New York City, and, of that number, roughly 3,000 to 8,000 of them identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender.

http://www.tonic.com/article/cyndi-lauper-to-open-shelter-for-lgbt-youth/


And that's the reason she's opening a shelter for homeless GLBT youth.





Again: Your heart's in the right place, Lube but instead of blissfully ignoring these people, we'd all be better off if we brought attention to it and did something to help change this. While yes, you do make a point that people from my generation don't experience quite as much discrimination as you did growing up, we DO still face a lot of problems.

 

[altlover85]

I don't think anyone's saying there are no problems. However, I think we can all agree there are places were being gay isn't as much of an issue. For people in those places and who are not financially dependent on their parents, Lube's advice applies. I also think he's generally talking about people that are over 18 since those are the people that are members of this website.

 

[erobert]

There's a lot of interesting points being made here. One thing I will say is most of the time mothers know, they just do.

When to coming out to others is a personal choice but everyone gay or bisexual owes it to themselves to come out to themselves. For those that have the money and the independence to live in a big city coming out is easier. There's tons of gay and bi men in the city. Slowly but surely you don't feel so self conscious anymore about being gay because nobody who lives in the city nobody cares if you're gay or bi. Join the crowd. And if they do care- they can move to the suburbs.

Now for young guys still living with their parents in a rural or suburban setting it may be harder to come out because these environments are not very diverse like the city is. Everyone seems the same (major emphasis on the word seems)

There comes a tipping point in the coming out process when the closeted world you've built around yourself becomes too confining and sexual frustration overrides some of the fears of coming out. You realize after awhile the homophobes who seem to hate us are gay themselves (complicated and scary psychological processes going on there). After coming out to a few people, after finally starting the dating process, and after you have sex with a guy for the first time kind of regret not doing it sooner.

Despite this some challenges in coming out many gay men need to make strides also so they can live happy, fulfilling lives. The sooner the better.

For guys who live in a glass closet- come out. Lube is right, people are more open minded about sexuality than they were just ten years ago. Stop assuming everyone is straight because they're not (Kinsey underestimated). Each generation is more progressive than the one before. The age most people are coming out is dropping. In fact, we're currently undergoing a generational paradigm shift on sexuality- gen y is very open minded. Really, we are.

I've learned people are more perceptive and accepting than you think.

 

[altlover85]

Great post, erobert!

 

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[hotdog1846]

"Time outs us all." -- Joshua_Me

One of the most eloquent four words I've ever seen on JUB.

 

[braex27]

Your straight friends don't tell you who they're dating or who they have crushes on or who they think is hot? What do you guys talk about???

Well, several things here.

First, I think you misread my response. I said "none of my straight friends decided to tell me they're straight just because everyone knew or suspected." Not a single one of them felt the need to take me aside, sit me down, buy me lunch and say, "Hey, I hope this doesn't affect our friendship, but I'm straight." And they shouldn't have to. And I don't think I should have to either, unless I want to.

Second. Sure we talk about who we find hot, who we're crushing on and (to some friends, not all of them) who we're dating. My choice who I tell and when. Some of my friends aren't even interested. Good for them. And don't get me started on whether I'm interested in who they're dating (or not dating, or re-dating... YIKES!).

Third. We talk about plenty of other stuff - work - movies - books - travel - food - sports (sometimes) - what we're doing on the weekend - ... etc.etc.

 

[Lube]

Yes, a great post, Erobert.

Breax27, you have a very misguided idea of what coming out means.

Unless you're like me, and you've been married to a woman and have decades of unconvincing lies to admit to, the only people you need to sit down and say, "I'm gay" to are your parents. And even then I'm not sure it's really necessary anymore.

No, nowadays, coming out means just being honest. When the subjects of dates or weekends or social activities come up, you honestly tell people who you've been dating or which bars you've gone to or who you find hot at the movies or on TV.

Because if you don't talk about these things, people can immediately tell you're hiding something, and just assume you're gay.

And your friends who aren't interested in who you're dating and don't reveal who they're dating? They're just as gay as you are. Now admit that you've had suspicions about them all along.

 

[Lube]

I just added this to my siggie:

"The mindset that no one knows you're gay because you haven't told them, is like the dog that thinks you don't see him stealing the steak because he avoids your glance."

We've all seen dogs do that, right?

And we all think how silly that dog is being.

But he believes in his own constructed reality, sadly.