Hillary Clinton and her presidential-loss, blame game of excluding herself

[MystikWizard]

I wasn't trying to be funny...I bend over backward NOT to be funny on the internet.

My sense of humor is wicked...and I'm quick. It does not translate well on the internet so I leave it at the door.

If you want what I said to make sense...try this...

As a gay man..someone can tell me all day long that they aren't homophobic..but having been on the other side of it I know in a second if they are or not.

If I hear a Black Person tell me something is racist..I pay attention to them because they will know more than I do about it as they have to face it every damn day of their lives.

I also defer to woman who have had to listen to that crap their whole lives. They KNOW...alot more than you or I do.

You guys did and said ALOT of blatantly sexist things..and since you REFUSE to acknowledge you were inundated by Russian and Right Wing Trolls who more than helped craft the dialogue...blaming even THAT on Hillary

...I guess it is all on you then....

...got it now?

Yeah, you drank the Hillary Kool-Aid. You keep warning folks about trying to rally troops to the cause .... I think in this day and age, what is going to happen is going to happen. Patience has worn out and the real Progressives ... not the ones in name only (Blue Dogs) are dragging the party further to the left because they are frankly tired of waiting. At this rate, true Progressive concepts such as a Single Payer Government Healthcare is lucky to happen before 2050 at this rate.

Their threshold for playing the waiting game is actually a lot more if it leads to the long term good of the party. If it means losing a few elections for a few years to make a point, I think you have seen from last year's election that this group is willing to do it. After all, what good are Democrats in Name Only who simply talk a good game who really support the same corporations as Republicans?

As far as saying blatantly sexist things ... if telling it like it is considered "sexist", then oh well. Today's Feminism is anything but the traditional definition. Today's feminism is outright sexism and that was apparent from a large percentage of Hillary supporters, including the Gay Men on here.

 

[eastofeden]

^^^^We were never on the same side anyway...just to be clear....

...and I have alot of terms for you and people like you...progressive doesn't even crack the top 20...nor is it a runner up...

 

[MystikWizard]

^^^^We were never on the same side anyway...just to be clear....

...and I have alot of terms for you and people like you...progressive doesn't even crack the top 20...nor is it a runner up...

No, that much is pretty clear. If you supported Hillary and the corporate arm of the DNC, you are definitely not a Progressive. Instead, you are a Progressive in Name Only and actually most likely a sexist as are many Gay guys who are all-too-happy to join the female sexists that supported Hillary. That is how in their minds they get back with those evil straight guys.

 

[eastofeden]

No, that much is pretty clear. If you supported Hillary and the corporate arm of the DNC, you are definitely not a Progressive. Instead, you are a Progressive in Name Only and actually most likely a sexist as are many Gay guys who are all-too-happy to join the female sexists that supported Hillary. That is how in their minds they get back with those evil straight guys.

Just one thing if you don't mind....

Do you have a wind up key?...or just a tape recorder planted in your brain that says the same thing over and over...and over....and then over again...and over...and over.....and over again....and over....

 

[MystikWizard]

Just one thing if you don't mind....

Do you have a wind up key?...or just a tape recorder planted in your brain that says the same thing over and over...and over....and then over again...and over...and over.....and over again....and over....

Truth hurts, doesn't it? And I won't let you forget it either.

 

[eastofeden]

Truth hurts, doesn't it? And I won't let you forget it either.

Oh...please do continue...

...and don't let me forget

View attachment 1229436

..but dude..you should at least get something right so it isn't too embarrassing...

Do you need some help?

I've Got It!!!! I really DO love Nancy Pelosi!...and she (gasp) has a vagina too! Now knock yourself out!

 

[CoolBlue71]

Last year's primaries are over. Let's learn from that and move on. Whatever lessons we learned, let's bring them along to win our next battle in 2018 more so in 2020 where we should work hard to win the governors' mansions and state legislatures in time of the nationwide census.

The same category of people who were in charge last year are still in control of the Democratic Party.

At this point, and it will likely remain this way, I am not interested in helping them in 2018.

 

[Julian89]

You are agreeing with a Trump guy...someone who hated Hillary so bad he posed as a Bernie Bro so he could bash her.

The Trump trolls played a lot of you like a fiddle......

So that makes you smart and me not? I do not know the guy and I only respond based on what he said not on what he truly believes if you're saying that he is Trumper pretending to support the ideals of Senator Sanders.

You still haven't learned to stop blaming Hillary or all the other "estabishment Democrats".....and your movement will get no where if you don't take a little time to understand what negotiation and compromise means. The all or nothing approach will not win you enough allies....and instead of getting any part of your agenda...you will get none of it....

The last time Democrats were in power and did "negotiations" and "compromise" that you are claiming, it benefited Big Pharma, Big Health Insurance and Wall Street at the expense of the 99%. Please be frank and tell me straightforward to what extent of "negotiations" and "compromise" of our core values and principles are you willing to give in.

We need to throw away Big Money and go back to our allies in labor, women's groups, minority groups, environmental groups, and other like-minded groups. A genuine Progressive coalition that will fight for the interests of the 99%.

When I did my thing for Kucinich in 2008...I was horrified when I noticed right wing trolls were "agreeing" with me and using my points to undermine the conversation. You guys all in all are too naïve and blind to understand that this happened to you on a MUCH WIDER SCALE. Kucinich was never a threat to anyone...but it bugged me to have the right wing trolls on my side....you guys by and large seemed to embrace their talking points.

I watched you guys happily repeating and parroting ANY anti Hillary stuff...going back to 1992....not even caring that you were helping the GOP.

So because some truth hurts, you'd rather hide it? It may be used against you but that's the truth and there's no way to lie about it.

I know of right-wingers using left-wing talking points but I have to know people from the left who I follow that parrot right-wing talking points. And since you conclude that I am one of them, please be frank and tell me which right-wing talking points I am embracing.

What truth would have you us Progressives censured ourselves on? That the then-Democratic nominee big donors are Wall Street, Big Health Insurance, Big Pharma, among others? That she gave six-digit figures speeches to Wall Street? What see no truth, hear no truth, speak no truth you want Progressives did back then?

People like me should be an EASY ally to acquire...but I cannot respect the movement that did this. I am damn sure not jumping in bed with the people you guys have allowed in the bed....and yet you can't even recognize them. Stamping your feet and saying it isn't so isn't gonna work. I know it is a fact.

I thought it was settled in the other thread that at most, 90% of supporters of Senator Sanders have voted for the establishment Democratic nominee compared to 81% of her supporters who voted for President Obama in 2008. But keep up beating a dead horse if that will make you feel better.

If you cant distinguish between people who are likely to be allies and people who are not...how do you expect to move forward with your "movement"? You will not "take back" anything.

The Democrat Party is center left at best...but I am far left.... and you haven't convinced me.

The Democratic Party today is no longer the party of FDR, LBJ and MLK. The Progressive movement will occupy it and take it back in that direction.

Our message will reach out to those whose hearts are open. If you stubbornly choose to close your heart due to reasons, it's on you not on the Progressive movement.

You have to convince a lot of people.....you aren't doing a good job.

The establishment Democrats ain't either. As President Truman have said, "Given a choice between a Republican and a Democrat who acts like a Republican; the voters will pick the Republican every time!"

 

[Julian89]

LOL...you are so clueless.....

My "hardcore Hillary credentials" don't even exist. I DO admire her as a statesman and I think she was more than qualified.....

..and I categorically disagree with your erroneous assumptions about her and the right wing talking points you repeated really sucked.

But do go ahead and keep the division going. You Bernie Bros aren't really into compromise...I get it.

BTW,....the women (and some of the men) who really ARE hardcore Hillary supporters...every fucking woman in any position of power has heard the same shit about them. Do you think that won you support? You didn't stop it when it was pointed out to you...how can you BE that clueless????

Good Luck with your movement

This is getting old. The establishment Democrats and its then-nominee cannot fail but they can only be failed by the voters.

 

[Julian89]

Then start you own party. Really. Hurry.

Call it the Whiner Party...

Never. The Democratic Party is the Progressive Party back in the 1930s to 1970s. We will expunge Big Money from it and make it the Progressive Party that it was whose legacies include, but not limited to, Social Security, Medicare, Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Wall Street Regulation, among others. We will occupy and take it back to its Progressive roots.

 

[Julian89]

The same category of people who were in charge last year are still in control of the Democratic Party.

At this point, and it will likely remain this way, I am not interested in helping them in 2018.

I feel bad that you're thinking that way. If you find it in your heart difficult to support the establishment Democrats, then support Progressive individuals whom you believe are fighting for your values and interests. Campaign for them. Help them register voters. Send them $$$$ is you have something to spare.

You can start here: https://ourrevolution.com/

Wish you the best.

 

[Kulindahr]

Again. It is everyone, but Hillary and the party.


Also it is laughable you keep insinuating “Bernie Bros” are misogynistic, when many of us voted for a woman.

His labeling of "Bernie Bros" is about as helpful as Benvolio's screeching about "liberals" -- it's a way to avoid discussion.

 

[Kulindahr]

Just one thing if you don't mind....

Do you have a wind up key?...or just a tape recorder planted in your brain that says the same thing over and over...and over....and then over again...and over...and over.....and over again....and over....

You're asking him?

Look in the mirror.

 

[Kulindahr]

The Democratic Party today is no longer the party of FDR, LBJ and MLK. The Progressive movement will occupy it and take it back in that direction.

"Progressives" cheer for MLK only selectively: he was a strong advocate for the right to keep and bear arms. He knew his movement could only succeed if his home and those of his key supporters were continually guarded by armed citizens.

If Progressives really stood for what MLK did, they could sweep Congress because the NRA would no longer be a de facto Republican preserve.

 

[eastofeden]

You're asking him?

Look in the mirror.

I did...

The guy only shows up for ONE THING and repeats the SAME THING over and over....

We are not the same...

...but it is OK with me if you think we are. One could say you are an endless drone concerning the NRA and gun rights...but you talk about too many other things on this and other forums to make you a one trick pony...

 

[ballcaphair]

I am trying to trade my mirror for a window, or really an open door. I'm trying to wrap my head around this whole mess. Sometimes debate looks like an argument, in the forum and actually more in my head. Sincere thanks for the input.

 

[CoolBlue71]

…

The Democrat Party is center left at best...but I am far left.... and you haven't convinced me.

It is the Democratic, not “Democrat,” Party.

No—you are not “far left.”

 

[eastofeden]

It is the Democratic, not “Democrat,” Party.

No—you are not “far left.”

I see you in the same light. ...NOT far left...I think you are an anarchist...

 

[eastofeden]

This is getting old. The establishment Democrats and its then-nominee cannot fail but they can only be failed by the voters.

One final whimper and I am officially checking out of explaining what happened.....

The bottom line...the narrative on Hillary Clinton was the karma of YEARS AND YEARS of the United States influencing elections all over the world....disinformation campaigns....with much success....

If you think Russia wasn't partially or wholly responsible for manipulating the dialogue and perhaps even much worse..you are sincerely naive.

It came home full tilt boogie to bite us in the ass. This isn't the first time either..just the most dramatic. When you had Liberals and Democrats sending out propaganda that showed Hillary's graveyard of dead bodies....and the people repeating it didn't even question it..they definitely helped Donald Trump in very real ways...

I hate to think of how many oppressive assholes we helped put in power...all over the world..and how many governments we helped overthrow....

Along the way....I might have even agreed with some of the people we helped overthrow...so I am not speaking as a saint.

Even with our flaws..I am very patriotic to the United States.

....and I have been VERY ANGRY at the people who didn't even blink or question what was happening....I consider that you all helped them. ...and if you repeated the false narrative...you DID help them in a very real way...

I am not going to be getting over it ever really...but like a million other things I have no control over...I will just live with it..knowing what happened....

I want to move forward now....

I will suggest one thing. If you want to move forward..adjust the narrative. 86 the bullshit. It will happen again....and next time...it may be the person you like. Close the Pandora's Box..get ALL the facts about someone..and please try to remember..there are no saints in politics.

 

[eastofeden]

PS...one more thing..one more time...

They were NOT the same

They were NEVER the same...

NOT EVEN CLOSE

...not even a lesser of two evils scenario. One of them is experienced...and sane...'nuff said.

If you are a Progressive or Liberal or Democrat and you repeat this ever again...you are doomed to repeat the same mistake...assuming we are still here and ever get another chance.

You may not have liked her or agreed with her methodology or politics...but if you take a good look at who we got instead and you can't see a huge difference...you need an adjustment somewhere.