If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

[xbuzzerx]

"Straight Acting" is exactly about how being effeminate is bad. There is simply no other reason to describe oneself thus.

When I describe myself as bookish am I insulting sports fans?

If you call yourself queeny acting are you insulting masculinity?

Yes.

The funniest part about it is that it doesn't even matter in the long run because there will be people who perceive you a certain way once they know you're homosexual anyway. I personally don't hesitate or question the things I do, say or like because it might seem "gay" to do, say or like.

That is in my opinion an error and a disservice on your part to equate them. Essentially you are saying that a gay man who is not making an intentional effort to fit a stereotype is just faking his lack of stereotypical traits.

If that's your position, fine, but then don't complain when the mainstream stereotypes you, because you have equated the stereotype as being integral to being gay at all.

 

[mcflyer54]

For me "straight acting" means having sex with someone of the opposite sex and "gay acting" would imply same sex activity. Because, any other aspect of life can be equally applied to both gay and straight people. Otherwise, when used by a gay person the implication is that "straight acting" is somehow more of a man (or woman). Ironically I've found that many of the men I know who describe themselves as "straight acting" are actually projecting an image that is the exact opposite of what they think they are projecting.

 

[TX-Beau]

When I describe myself as bookish am I insulting sports fans?

If you call yourself queeny acting are you insulting masculinity?

I don't know is there a history of repression and self loathing, and suicide amongst the bookish because they aren't sports fans and desperately want to be?

False equivalency.

The second is more interesting, find me an example of someone who self labels as such and we'll see.

 

[eastofeden]

Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

"Straight Acting" is exactly about how being effeminate is bad. There is simply no other reason to describe oneself thus.

I definitely think this is the case. I am probably in a "unique" position as I interacted with gay men every day...one on one and in large groups...for 20 years...and I love to talk to people (which is why I was a bartender in a gay bar)...and though I know there are exceptions to everything...lots of them...I found it more often the case than not when a self identifying "straight acting" gay would soon after or eventually rant about feminine guys... resenting them ....pissed off they were in the same "group" as them.

I walked out of the only GSU meeting in college I ever attended after I got into a fight with the guy running it...he later went on to be a major spokesman for the GLBT community actually...and it was over the fact that he was suggesting we represent ourselves in the gay parade as "just like them" ...

I do not want equality and/or visibility for people "just like me" ...I want it for everyone...period...especially people I don't like or approve of or else it means nothing....I even want equality and visibility for the "straight acting" guy running that meeting (who shall remain nameless)

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

That is in my opinion an error and a disservice on your part to equate them. Essentially you are saying that a gay man who is not making an intentional effort to fit a stereotype is just faking his lack of stereotypical traits.

Uh, no I am not at all? You are interpreting it this way and it is interpreting it wrong.

Whether you fit certain stereotypes or not isn't what I am talking about. And I personally don't care if you do, but going out of your way to avoid stereotypes, acting, or behaving in a certain way because they seem gay is the issue I am speaking of. You seem to have a hard time comprehending this.

If that's your position, fine, but then don't complain when the mainstream stereotypes you, because you have equated the stereotype as being integral to being gay at all.

It is my position and I wasn't complaining, I answered the thread about my thoughts on straight acting and furthered the discussion with people who quoted me. And I could give a fuck about how the "mainstream" stereotypes me because if they're so lazy to do so they're not worth my time anyway.

And never have I once said that the gay stereotypes there are, are integral to being gay. That has all been you implying that.

 

[G-Lexington]

Uh, no I am not at all? You are interpreting it this way and it is interpreting it wrong.

Then perhaps a question was skipped. To the question "Are 'trying not to appear gay' and 'not intentionally trying to seem gay', to you, the same thing?" you answered yes. So let me ask this question:

"Are (intentionally or not) trying not to appear gay" and "not appearing gay, without any 'trying' on his part", to you, the same thing?

Lex

 

[bort138]

How about instead of "straight acting" we use "undercover gay" or "covert gay."

 

[TX-Beau]

How about instead of "straight acting" we use "undercover gay" or "covert gay."

I'm all in favor of saying I'm just me as you find me and being gay is a wonderful part of that.

No need say anything else.

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

But you are essentially saying that there is no point in giving my point of view, on account that nobody will listen anyway, and that they think they know better too.

I don't have any problem with people disagreeing with my views, my problem is the intent to belittle me based on those views.

No, I'm saying that going off into "I HAVE TO," or any version of "it's not fair," is pointless.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I don't know is there a history of repression and self loathing, and suicide amongst the bookish because they aren't sports fans and desperately want to be?

False equivalency.

The second is more interesting, find me an example of someone who self labels as such and we'll see.

There's a history of suicide connected with coming to terms with being gay.

I don't see you saying that calling myself gay is harming other people, though.

 

[eastofeden]

How about instead of "straight acting" we use "undercover gay" or "covert gay."

I think gender/role bias, behavior and attitudes are more deeply ingrained in us than homophobia so "straight acting" can be a useful tool...especially to the people who want to avoid that influence in their lives......

 

[xbuzzerx]

Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

I do not want equality and/or visibility for people "just like me" ...I want it for everyone...period...especially people I don't like or approve of or else it means nothing....I even want equality and visibility for the "straight acting" guy running that meeting (who shall remain nameless)

The problem is that this thread is saying everyone not like me is causing harm and offense to me, just from a different perspective.

All inclusion is great and I support it. Where's the inclusiveness in this thread for the people who would fall under the term "straight acting?"

I don't see it. I see several people saying that people who fall under the term are lying to themselves, if not actively harming other gay people. If someone said exactly that same sentence about drag queens, what would be this forum's reaction? The same as here? I doubt it.

 

[TX-Beau]

Actually the history of suicide is among those who DON'T want to call themselves gay, and don't come to terms with it.

The "harm" as you put it, is a culture that teaches the imperative that being effeminate in any way is a betrayal of masculinity.

This is just a consequence of that.

I repeat, this is about how a guy feels about himself - yes it's offensive, but so are a lot of other things. It's primary fallout is that a bunch of gay guys are going to see it as a red flag.

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

The problem is that this thread is saying everyone not like me is causing harm and offense to me, just from a different perspective.

All inclusion is great and I support it. Where's the inclusiveness in this thread for the people who would fall under the term "straight acting?"

I don't see it. I see several people saying that people who fall under the term are lying to themselves, if not actively harming other gay people. If someone said exactly that same sentence about drag queens, what would be this forum's reaction? The same as here? I doubt it.

I think you might be conflating a bunch of things into a point nobody made. If some guy wants to play SA - I frankly don't care, it's just going to make me avoid him probably.

Discussion of the term, it's origins, and why it gets used isn't saying that it will bring fire down on our heads.

Straight people don't give a fuck and are NOT going to say, oh look at Bob, he's a "Straight Acting" Gay, they are just going to say he's gay.

On the ground the only people who obsess over this are usually the guys who call themselves SA.

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

Erm, well i'd say that's being pretty repressive right there.

So I'M FORCING YOU TO ENGAGE!

It's nice to be omnipotent.

 

[blackbeltninja]

Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

On the ground the only people who obsess over this are usually the guys who call themselves SA.

Yes... except that the topic was started by someone who loathes the term and doesn't identify as such, and all the objections are coming from like-minded people.

So... no.

-d-

 

[xbuzzerx]

Actually the history of suicide is among those who DON'T want to call themselves gay, and don't come to terms with it.

The "harm" as you put it, is a culture that teaches the imperative that being effeminate in any way is a betrayal of masculinity.

This is just a consequence of that.

I repeat, this is about how a guy feels about himself - yes it's offensive, but so are a lot of other things. It's primary fallout is that a bunch of gay guys are going to see it as a red flag.

Society teaches that nerdiness is bad.

I watch tons of sci fi.

Assigning to me participating in persecution or harm to others based on how I self-describe is out of line.

 

[LuckysRevenge]

Actually the history of suicide is among those who DON'T want to call themselves gay, and don't come to terms with it.

The "harm" as you put it, is a culture that teaches the imperative that being effeminate in any way is a betrayal of masculinity.

This is just a consequence of that.

I repeat, this is about how a guy feels about himself - yes it's offensive, but so are a lot of other things. It's primary fallout is that a bunch of gay guys are going to see it as a red flag.

Then it is equally wrong or harm to call yourself masculine because of all the negative connotations "feminine" carries.

So what term would you prefer that is innocuous?

 

[TX-Beau]

Then it is equally wrong or harm to call yourself masculine because of all the negative connotations "feminine" carries.

So what term would you prefer that is innocuous?

I already answered that.

 

[eastofeden]

Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

The problem is that this thread is saying everyone not like me is causing harm and offense to me, just from a different perspective.

All inclusion is great and I support it. Where's the inclusiveness in this thread for the people who would fall under the term "straight acting?"

I don't see it. I see several people saying that people who fall under the term are lying to themselves, if not actively harming other gay people. If someone said exactly that same sentence about drag queens, what would be this forum's reaction? The same as here? I doubt it.

According to most straight people...*I* fall into that category...as does my lover...except they tell me and Dave they would "never know we were gay". Sometimes...they go on to see if I have any of the internalized homophobia they have...now that they have given me what they consider a compliment (BARF)...I am not a stupid person and manipulating me is not very easy. When they notice I do not see it as a compliment or a bonding moment they often qualify it by saying that they have no problem with "normal" gay people but some of "those guys" make them want to puke.

So...what they are saying is that they have gender/role bias and judgements....I "get it"...I think it is boring and a bit controlling to worry about how other individuals represent themselves...and if they think I am throwing anyone else under the bus to get some approval or acceptance (and they do)...they are badly mistaken. After I ream their ass...ever so gently... I usually get a "I didn't mean anything by that" and I smile and reassure them that of course I already knew that *wink wink*

I see groups of people who are marginalized in society all having the same problem....they are trying to pit us against each for a grain of approval or acceptance. When someone uses that label it reminds me of all of that. I don't care if they use it.....and I am not offended....but I do think it reeks of gender/role bias and is an example of how oppressed groups of people oppress each other. Most of that behavior is not conscious ...it is ingrained.....and that is why it is so effective.