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On-Topic Putting blame EVERYWHERE it belongs.

And I am sure for every article you could produce someone could produce ties to Hillary and or the DNC. Doesn't mean much.

...and neither does your [STRIKE]article[/STRIKE] opinion piece


I am sure you did notice yourself being described in the article from the OP.

Please...I am the one who was pointing out Trumps Nazi tendencies for a year before the election. I didn't hear squat from the Bernie Bros...it was Hillary's emails and Benghazi..so fuck off.
 
...and neither does your [STRIKE]article[/STRIKE] opinion piece




Please...I am the one who was pointing out Trumps Nazi tendencies for a year before the election. I didn't hear squat from the Bernie Bros...it was Hillary's emails and Benghazi..so fuck off.



You are so cute when you can't defend your position.
 
Good to see you again. It's been a long time.


And your point is? I didn't mention your name until a mod had me. My point was in mentioning a poster, of which your were, is that we had those people in the article in the OP on JUB as well.

But this is at least the second thread you alluded to the same user in some way shape or form passive aggressively.
 
You fight for nothing I believe in.

You and people like you helped elect Trump.

Protesting him now? Kinda pointless. You helped elect him.

Please. Stop.

Almost 90% of those who supported Senator Bernie Sanders in the Democratic Primary have voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016 compared to 81% of her supporters who voted for Barack Obama back in 2008.

Still, she failed to make it first to the finish line when her competitor is the Deplorable-in-Chief. Just imagine how someone so qualified like her have been defeated by the unqualified flesh-and-bone deplorable like him. With someone like the Deplorable-in-Chief as your rival, she should have been 50 points ahead even but she didn't and worse she lost.

But you know, you may opt to look what happened with a rainbow-colored glasses. Hillary Clinton can never fail. She was simply failed by the voters.
 
Please. Stop.

Almost 90% of those who supported Senator Bernie Sanders in the Democratic Primary have voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016 compared to 81% of her supporters who voted for Barack Obama back in 2008.

Still, she failed to make it first to the finish line when her competitor is the Deplorable-in-Chief. Just imagine how someone so qualified like her have been defeated by the unqualified flesh-and-bone deplorable like him. With someone like the Deplorable-in-Chief as your rival, she should have been 50 points ahead even but she didn't and worse she lost.

But you know, you may opt to look what happened with a rainbow-colored glasses. Hillary Clinton can never fail. She was simply failed by the voters.

The polls lie...don'tcha know...

Luckily...I don't need a poll because I hang out in Santa Cruz which is Bernie Central and it is more like 50% voted for Clinton...15% for others (including Trump) and 35% stayed home because they were too depressed or couldn't compromise their integrity or some other drivel excuse.

The good thing about them though..they have enough sense to understand they fucked up and have long ago shut the fuck up about Clinton. They understand how insane it is to drone on about her with Trump at the helm....

Hillary's Emails vs Nazis......

Hmmmmmmm.............

Your movement's new goals of taking down Democrats in 2018 renders everything you say bullshit,.
 
Your movement's new goals of taking down Democrats in 2018 renders everything you say bullshit,.

Noteworthy....

...I wonder whether the ongoing drama at the WH will provide our "progressives" with a moment of reflection, or should we expect more on Hillary Clinton's flaws.
 
I have often pointed out the liberal/democrat agenda is to destroy the white majority, and, with abortion and immigration, they are succeeding. Clinton famously said there will soon be no racial majority and it will a good thing. Obama made immigration, legal and illegal and refugees his priority, using executive orders to avoid legal limits. He said he wanted America to be a "hodgepodge".
Now White Americans have sized up to the plot, and their slogan is "We will not be replaced". For defending against hostile and racist policies, they are labeled Nazis and racist. And notice that the liberals--not conservatives--are using the defense as an excuse to limit political speech. It is liberals, not conservatives who are moving us toward totalitarianism.
 
You are delusional.

There were two choices...you chose a third party candidate...,many of your friends stayed home or did the same. You willingly spread disinformation about Clinton and knowingly egged on the Russians..cheering them as they invaded our privacy....

Your stated goals are to remove as many Democrats as possible in the next election....I consider the alt left my enemy now for that reason. When I see you..I see Trump.

We are SO NOT ON THE SAME SIDE..and your assinine tactics will keep the Republicans in Power.

I consider you Regressives...not Progressives...and like the Tea Party....you have no room for compromise. I DO have room for compromise....and I will plug my nose every time if I have to for the person who will move us forward. That would have been Clinton. Period.

Elections are always about turning out your base but what the Democratic Party did last year as echoed by Senator Chuck Schumer was:

“For every blue-collar Democrat we will lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two, three moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

And we know what happened in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Ohio and who would have thought Michigan. Heck, we even almost lost Minnesota. And you still choose to blame voters when it's the Democrat Party that chose to give its progressive base a middle finger so just to get voters from the other side. This is the assinine tactic that put Republicans in power. Without very strong push from Progressives, the establishment Democrats will surely repeat this same assinine tactic over and over again expecting different result. What is Einstein's definition of stupid again?

On the so-called Alt-Left. Who would have thought that establishment Democrats are co-opting the term that only the people on the Right uses just so in order to marginalize and isolate its progressive base?

Alt-Right people are racist, sexist, homophobic and xenophobic. The Right's politically correct term for white ethocentric Nazis or KKK. Whether the Republican Party admit it or not, it is part of their base.

By labelling us as Alt-Left, are you saying that we are racist, sexist, homophobic and xenophobic as the Alt-Right are? Or, just like that of establishment Democrats, you simply just want to marginalize and isolate us those who are pushing the Democratic Party back to its progressive roots? Too bad, you cannot push us away. We will not stop until we occupy and take back the Democratic Party. With Progressivism regaining its position as the heart and soul of the Party, it will go back to its glorious era of being the party of the People, by the People and for the People (circa 1930s - 1970s).

For the nth time, you keep saying "negotiations" and "compromise." Just like what I said from the other threads, the last time Democrats were in power (e.g. 2009, then-Pres. Obama with super majority in the Senate and a big majority in the House) and did "negotiations" and "compromise" that you are claiming, it benefited Big Pharma, Big Health Insurance and Wall Street at the expense of the 99%. Please be frank and tell me straightforward to what extent of "negotiations" and "compromise" of core progressive values and principles are you willing to give in.
 
Makes sense. There are two choices. I picked a third.

Just admit that you don't care about Trump winning. You just care that your hero Hillary didn't get her turn.


This is all that matters. The rest of your whining doesn't matter because it has been shown as untrue since the election and almost everybody that is not a hardcore Hillary supporter admits it.

Despite everything, I voted for Hillary but not enough for her to be first in the finish line. We are a democracy so I respect your right to vote for someone you would really like to vote for. You own your vote and no one can guilt trip you on it.

At some point, people needs to be mature enough of being accountable and own up to the consequences of their own actions. Too bad that this still needs to be said but with attitudes of some people that it's everyone's fault except mine mentality, I guess this can never be understated. In elections, the game is candidates must woo voters to vote for them in order to win. If voters did not vote for you, it only means that candidates did not woo them enough. Nonetheless, as in any other games, elections can also be rigged but only in two ways: (1) there is no level playing field where one candidate has undue advantage over other candidates to begin with (e.g. superdelegates lining up in advance prior to the voting of their constituents giving an impression of huge lead prior to the election proper, giving debate questions in advance, etc) and/or (2) influencing/hacking of vote counters [i.e. Stalin's "It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people (or in this case, machines) who count the votes"]. Neither of the two conditions were observed in the general elections last year. Whether its Russians, Macedonians or whoever operatives, both sides were victimized by leaks. The Deplorable-in-Chief has his grab-by-the-pu$$y scandal. As for Hillary Clinton, she has this Wall Street speeches such as having both public and private positions. Then there's the emails DNC under Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and Donna Brazile showing their disdain against the camp of Senator Bernie Sanders and bias for that of Hillary Clinton. If establishment Democrats and their supporters cannot accept these facts, then we will be repeating the same mistakes all over again. Losing and losing until nothing is left to lose anymore.

Fortunately, there is still hope. The establishment leadership of the Democratic Party are beginning to acknowledge this reality. From Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer:

“When you lose to somebody who has 40 percent popularity, you don’t blame other things — [James] Comey, Russia — you blame yourself. So what did we do wrong? People didn’t know what we stood for, just that we were against Trump. And still believe that.”

Whether it's his public or private position or both, what's important is that establishment Democratic leaders are acknowledging this reality in public. While it's a step in the right (or perhaps left) direction, progressives still need to work hard to ensure that this will not only end up as rhetoric.
 
[Arguing] over whose fault the shit-pile is, is not going to get rid of said pile. Get rid of it first - complain at each other later.

I don’t look at as “arguing.”

I look at it as recognizing.

The Democratic Party, the establishment, needs to clean house…very dramatically.

So far, I don’t come across news of that happening. Hell, the Republican side, post-Midterms 2006, have done plenty more—comparing the two parties—over the last 10 years. The only ones who seem to go from the Democrats are progressives who get maligned or marginalized (Dennis Kucinich, Alan Grayson) or anyone who self-destructed (Anthony Weiner).
 
The polls lie...don'tcha know...

Luckily...I don't need a poll because I hang out in Santa Cruz which is Bernie Central and it is more like 50% voted for Clinton...15% for others (including Trump) and 35% stayed home because they were too depressed or couldn't compromise their integrity or some other drivel excuse.

The good thing about them though..they have enough sense to understand they fucked up and have long ago shut the fuck up about Clinton. They understand how insane it is to drone on about her with Trump at the helm....

Hillary's Emails vs Nazis......

Hmmmmmmm.............

Your movement's new goals of taking down Democrats in 2018 renders everything you say bullshit,.

Election results are not that far from the polls. Prior to the elections, polls have shown that Hillary Clinton will have more popular votes than the Deplorable-in-Chief 46.8% to 43.6%. Actual election results have shown that its 48.2 to 46.1. Not much of a lie as you claimed to be.

Again, almost 90% of those who supported Senator Bernie Sanders have voted for Hillary Clinton compared to that of 81% of her supporters who voted for then-President Barack Obama in 2008. We did our part so it's no longer on us.

Also, it's not about Hillary Clinton per se. It's about on what ideas and principles the Democratic Party stand for. Hillary Clinton is pro-corporate welfare, pro-deregulation and pro-war among others. The American electorate, especially in swing states, have decided they will have none of that. The thing is it could be anyone even a white straight cisgender male (for those who are saying that progressives are racist and sexist) who could have ran the same campaign Hillary Clinton did and that person will still lose.

Personally, since I cannot speak for other Progressives, if Hillary Clinton and other establishment Democrats will truly acknowledge their mistakes, sincerely have a change of heart and will genuinely (i.e. both in public as well as private and not in a pandering manner) embrace and fight very strongly for progressive causes, I will embrace and campaign for them very strongly to replace the Deplorable-in-Chief and his minions in 2018 and 2020 and beyond. Take it from me. You have my word.
 
(Julian89 responded to eastofeden.)

Elections are always about turning out your base but what the Democratic Party did last year as echoed by Senator Chuck Schumer was:

“For every blue-collar Democrat we will lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two, three moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

And we know what happened in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Ohio and who would have thought Michigan. Heck, [the Democrats with nominee Hillary Clinton] even almost lost Minnesota.…

CNN still has the exit polls available here: http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls .

Nationwide, Hillary Clinton performed where re-elected Barack Obama did with whites: Obama and Hillary were both –20. The 2012-to-2016 national shift of R+1.77—that Obama beat Romney by D+3.86, to Hillary over Trump by D+2.09, in the U.S. Popular Vote—and this was more affected by Hillary having underperformed the Obama margins in the minority demographics. With blacks, for example, Obama won them by +87. Hillary carried them by +81. (That was a Republican/Trump shift of +6.)

This was what helped to move the map to flip states as Republican pickups. In additions to what you mentioned, you can add the statewide of Maine as a near loss. Trump flipped the state’s 2nd district. But, Obama carried Maine statewide by +15.29, a good 11.43 points above his national margin, after which Hillary held it by only +2.96. (That made Maine a Republican/Trump shift of +12.33).

Hillary Clinton was a terrible nominee.
 
I haven't read through this entire thread, but has anyone mentioned that Hillary had the election in the bag until Comey reopened a closed investigation into 'her emails'? Not only did he reopen it, he reopened it very publicly with a lot of fanfare. Nothing was found before, which is why it was closed, and nothing was found afterwards. The only thing it did was to stoke Trump's fires that he had lit under his supporters and win him the election.

And then Trump fired him.
 
I haven't read through this entire thread, but has anyone mentioned that Hillary had the election in the bag until Comey reopened a closed investigation into 'her emails'? Not only did he reopen it, he reopened it very publicly with a lot of fanfare. Nothing was found before, which is why it was closed, and nothing was found afterwards. The only thing it did was to stoke Trump's fires that he had lit under his supporters and win him the election.

And then Trump fired him.



Not true. Hillary and Trump were still neck and neck, with Trump in the lead. Only Hillary supporting pollster put her in the lead. Now that they have nothing to lose, more and more Hillary supporters are admitting the things they did to help.

The irony is that it very well may have hurt her. Her hardcore supporters really only listed to to polls that put her in a good light. If they were more honest more people on the fence may have came out for her.
 
Now is not the time to worry about which strategy on the left is best.

There are Nazis marching on our streets.

There are Nazis marching in our streets because Hillary and the DNC offered nothing to vote for except "We're not Trump". And by cheating and being caught at it, the DNC discouraged people from voting -- as evidenced by the fact posted here previously that Bernie supporters turned out in larger proportion for Hillary than regular Democrats did.

And the Democrat response so far had been little more than "So we're corrupt -- we're not as corrupt as them"... instead of cleaning out everyone involved in the corruption and asking for help from the man who would have beaten Trump.
 
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