The expanding Israel-Hamas war

[ravenstone]

And really, it isn’t just a United States issue. It’s a World issue. In the future the US can’t be the police of the world. We all know the rules of the United Nations make it a complete joke, but it really is something that should be handled through the UN

I disagree, it is the United States who defends Israel. Israel without US support would either be destroyed or be forced to nuke their neighbors to survive.

 

[Norri]

I disagree, it is the United States who defends Israel. Israel without US support would either be destroyed or be forced to nuke their neighbors to survive.

It’s 2024 not 1973. In your imagination exactly who is it you believe would be capable of destroying Israel should they loose US support? Please remember when you respond no one has ever won a war using missiles or bombs.

And also consider every Arab country, with the possible exception of Syria, is rooting for the Jewish state.

 

[NotHardUp1]

And also consider every Arab country, with the possible exception of Syria, is rooting for the Jewish state.

Misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows.

Israel is surrounded by enemies. The Sunni and the Shia clash isn't as irreconcilable as the clash between Israel and all of her neighbors.

After all, it suited the Allies in WWII to aid Russia when the West knew he was almost as great a threat as Hitler. And deals were made with the Devil that enabled Russia to take Eastern Europe while the West looked on. It was the price of defeating Germany, for a second time.

It is not only possible, but likely, that Israel's neighbors will collude for a time in order to rid themselves of their odious neighbor. Israel's current barbaric actions prove to many that her protests about the savagery of the terrorists appear to be little more than partisan rhetoric. She is all too eager to wipe them out like vermin, and civilians are targeted just as viciously as any in Ukraine.

 

[KaraBulut]

...And also consider every Arab country, with the possible exception of Syria, is rooting for the Jewish state.

Don't confuse the antipathy for Palestinians with support for Israel.

In the big picture, everybody in the middle east hates everyone else in the middle east. Americans don't understand the history. It's a tribal culture and anyone who is not part of their tribe is the enemy. They do not want millions of Palestinian refugees in their countries.

Everyone hates Israel. Everyone. Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen- they all want Israel returned to the Arabs. They all remember the wars of the 1940s, the 1950s and the 1970s. These people hold grudges forever.

They may play nice when there's money involved but behind closed doors they wish Israel didn't exist. They want control of the Holy Land. They want control of the Temple on the Mount and they want the Jews out of Jerusalem.

That is never going to change.

 

[ravenstone]

It’s 2024 not 1973. In your imagination exactly who is it you believe would be capable of destroying Israel should they loose US support? Please remember when you respond no one has ever won a war using missiles or bombs.

And also consider every Arab country, with the possible exception of Syria, is rooting for the Jewish state.

Anti-Semitism is exploding around the world, Israel would suffer greatly without American support

Misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows.

Israel is surrounded by enemies. The Sunni and the Shia clash isn't as irreconcilable as the clash between Israel and all of her neighbors.

After all, it suited the Allies in WWII to aid Russia when the West knew he was almost as great a threat as Hitler. And deals were made with the Devil that enabled Russia to take Eastern Europe while the West looked on. It was the price of defeating Germany, for a second time.

It is not only possible, but likely, that Israel's neighbors will collude for a time in order to rid themselves of their odious neighbor. Israel's current barbaric actions prove to many that her protests about the savagery of the terrorists appear to be little more than partisan rhetoric. She is all too eager to wipe them out like vermin, and civilians are targeted just as viciously as any in Ukraine.

I am curious to know if you think Israel should just allow Jordan to fire missiles into it?`

 

[hagTreehouse]

In a carefully timed move...and as anticipated, the Iranian backed Hezbollah are attacking Israel from the north...effectively opening a second front.

The US is closing its embassy in Lebanon and telling all US citizens to leave.

What a shame. Lebanon has been here before and they have no chance of long term success either.

Gaza is effectively shut down. No water. No Power. Only Israel targeting every Hamas centre and leader as they sweep up after retaking and securing the border.

Again, it is impossible to believe that the planning for this major invasion has not been known by intelligence sources around the world.

Currently a massive missile and drone attack has been launched in the last couple of hours from Lebanon....this will only result in more scorched earth and a setback to the region's economies and stability.

Sorry about Lebanon. Beruit was the Paris of the Middle East once. And great bologna too!
But seriously,

let’s just have Armageddon and get it over with already. Then in 40 years Zephram Cochran will break the light barrier. I can’t wait for either candidate to screw this up after the election. Both are out of their league here.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Anti-Semitism is exploding around the world, Israel would suffer greatly without American support

I am curious to know if you think Israel should just allow Jordan to fire missiles into it?`

Not in the least.

Every nation, whether evil, just, oppressed or oppressor, has the right to defend itself, but you can't do no-holds-barred warfare and be expected to garner the world's sympathy/support for the unjustness of your victimhood.

Israel has been every bit as duplicitous and devious about its settlement expansion as Iran has been about its nuclear plans. You cannot expect Israel to make war on the ground, constantly pushing its neighbors off their land, without them fueling the war against them.

Israel plays the anti-Semitism card in the way black criminals play the race card. Is there true anti-Semitism based on religion? Sure. Is there real racism against blacks because of their race? Sure. But there are obvioiusly myriad cases where both actually represent other less odious conflicts between parties based on culture, violence, deceipt, propaganda, and other factors.

There are things I don't like about Jewish culture and religion, about black culture and Fundamentalism, and about Southern culture and its ethnocentrism, but I don't categorically dislike members of any of those three groups as a class of citizen or neighbor.

That's categorically not true of a great swath of Israelis, Arabs, and Persians.

 

[Norri]

Misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows.

Israel is surrounded by enemies. The Sunni and the Shia clash isn't as irreconcilable as the clash between Israel and all of her neighbors.

After all, it suited the Allies in WWII to aid Russia when the West knew he was almost as great a threat as Hitler. And deals were made with the Devil that enabled Russia to take Eastern Europe while the West looked on. It was the price of defeating Germany, for a second time.

It is not only possible, but likely, that Israel's neighbors will collude for a time in order to rid themselves of their odious neighbor. Israel's current barbaric actions prove to many that her protests about the savagery of the terrorists appear to be little more than partisan rhetoric. She is all too eager to wipe them out like vermin, and civilians are targeted just as viciously as any in Ukraine.

Try it again. I disagree that the Sunni-Shia clash isn’t as bad as the Arab-Israeli one. Religious wars are the worst as there is no need to compromise when God is on your side. It’s also more than 1400 yrs old and there is zero evidence that either side desires a reconciliation.

I will concede that once the Iranian threat is diminished the Arab countries might revisit their relations with Israel but that’s far in the future and they’ll need to find an Arab army that can actually fight. Heck the Syrian army couldn’t even put down an internal rebellion let alone have the capacity to take on the IDF

 

[Norri]

Don't confuse the antipathy for Palestinians with support for Israel.

In the big picture, everybody in the middle east hates everyone else in the middle east. Americans don't understand the history. It's a tribal culture and anyone who is not part of their tribe is the enemy. They do not want millions of Palestinian refugees in their countries.

Everyone hates Israel. Everyone. Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen- they all want Israel returned to the Arabs. They all remember the wars of the 1940s, the 1950s and the 1970s. These people hold grudges forever.

They may play nice when there's money involved but behind closed doors they wish Israel didn't exist. They want control of the Holy Land. They want control of the Temple on the Mount and they want the Jews out of Jerusalem.

That is never going to change.

Yes and perhaps in the fullness of time Germany will invade France yet again but past isn’t always prologue. They, including the Israelis, are a tribal culture but Arabs uniting is almost an oxymoron and as I’ve said above they will need an effective military to take Israel on and that is farther into the future than I can see.

One thing Israel has going for it is no Arab country feels threatened by it which isn’t true of the Iranians or even the Turks, history says keeping them out of Arab countries will be a more pressing issue than Israel moving forward.

 

[Norri]

Anti-Semitism is exploding around the world, Israel would suffer greatly without American support

At least when Stalin asked “and how many divisions does the Pope have” Churchill had the good sense not to answer.

 

[TX-Beau]

Anti-Semitism is exploding around the world, Israel would suffer greatly without American support

I am curious to know if you think Israel should just allow Jordan to fire missiles into it?`

Disagreeing with Bibi and his far-right extremist/fundamentalist Jewish owners is not antisemitism and it's disgusting that you're trying to sell that lie. If you don't like the press Israel is inspiring for itself, you can journey to Israel and complain to the people creating it. Israel is not excused because other people are assholes, Israel is responsible for what Israel does. Period.

Israel is not n danger of destruction, and it's nnot going to be, with or witout our support. It's ridiculous to try and stampede people into panic about something that is just ludicrous on its face and just plain paranoia in the first place.

 

[TX-Beau]

Try it again. I disagree that the Sunni-Shia clash isn’t as bad as the Arab-Israeli one. Religious wars are the worst as there is no need to compromise when God is on your side. It’s also more than 1400 yrs old and there is zero evidence that either side desires a reconciliation.

I will concede that once the Iranian threat is diminished the Arab countries might revisit their relations with Israel but that’s far in the future and they’ll need to find an Arab army that can actually fight. Heck the Syrian army couldn’t even put down an internal rebellion let alone have the capacity to take on the IDF

This hasn't changed in literally thousands of years no matter the gods, no matter the names of political lines on a map, no matter the leaders or ethnicities involved.

I think Kara is right that we just don't understand the cultures that hold these millennia long grudges over shitty pieces of desert.

 

[rareboy]

So Iran lobbing over 200 missiles against Israel seems like utterly performative theatre.

Although if they hit some airfields and Mossad HQ, that likely stung some.

But of course the vast majority were intercepted by the defensive Iron Dome network.

Will Israel allow Iran to skate on this? OR will they deal the Iranians even more humiliating blows against their allies in the region and even within Iran itself?

Iran gambles with Israel attack after humiliating blows to allies

Iran's leaders brace for Israeli retaliation after firing about 200 ballistic missiles.

www.bbc.com

 

[TX-Beau]

Bibi doesn't want to go to jail for his crimes and the Ayatollah doesn't want a revolution by the people. Putin wants diversion from Ukraine, and Toad and his horde want to crucify Harris and divide the Left.

Isn't it lovely when everybody gets what they want.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Will Israel allow Iran to skate on this? OR will they deal the Iranians even more humiliating blows against their allies in the region and even within Iran itself?

Netanyahu is trapped in a spiral of his own making. He can only continue escalating in the tedious blood feud that he is committed to prosecute.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Try it again. I disagree that the Sunni-Shia clash isn’t as bad as the Arab-Israeli one. Religious wars are the worst as there is no need to compromise when God is on your side. It’s also more than 1400 yrs old and there is zero evidence that either side desires a reconciliation.

I will concede that once the Iranian threat is diminished the Arab countries might revisit their relations with Israel but that’s far in the future and they’ll need to find an Arab army that can actually fight. Heck the Syrian army couldn’t even put down an internal rebellion let alone have the capacity to take on the IDF

The Israelis are deceiving themselves that this iron hammer can vanquish their enemies. It cannot. Another Nasser will rise, and he will be more aggressive, more effective, and more devastating than Israel can imagine. It's not wishful thinking on my part, merely assessing the outcome of very predictable elements. You don't have to know the details to know where it's going.

This will ignite, and within years, not decades.

 

[ravenstone]

The Israelis are deceiving themselves that this iron hammer can vanquish their enemies. It cannot. Another Nasser will rise, and he will be more aggressive, more effective, and more devastating than Israel can imagine. It's not wishful thinking on my part, merely assessing the outcome of very predictable elements. You don't have to know the details to know where it's going.

This will ignite, and within years, not decades.

I agree with your assessment, this is the very reason I am still undecided in the 2024 election.

 

[NotHardUp1]

I agree with your assessment, this is the very reason I am still undecided in the 2024 election.

Although I think the Democratic ticket is a weak one, I support it because it carries the potential to lower the temperature in the room. We have a better chance at regaining some natitonal unity with an administration that ran on it in their campaign.

That said, Obama campaigned on it too, but then failed as the GOP locked out progress in Congress to thwart him, and he was so inexperienced in the Senate that he really didn't have any great strategy or method. It was great to get the health care bill through, as hamstrung as the medical and pharmaceuticals and insurance titans made sure it would be.

I'm hoping the Dems take office but fearful that Harris is too weak to excel. I would like to be wrong.

On the other hand, if Trump succeeds, I think we will see our country tear itself apart in no time at all. We will survive a second round of Trump's pettiness, anti-government manipulations, and distractions. Even if he cannot hold onto power, he'll poison the well and light every well in the oil field behind him in defeat.

 

[TX-Beau]

I agree with your assessment, this is the very reason I am still undecided in the 2024 election.

Why? Which one of the candidates has any possibility of affecting any of it?

Your protestations of "undecided" are decidedly threadbare.

 

[NotHardUp1]

We will NOT survive a second round of Trump's pettiness, anti-government manipulations, and distractions.

Apologies for the miss.