The expanding Israel-Hamas war

[rareboy]

Israel continues to target Hezbollah in Beirut, ostensibly killing the possible successor to Nasrallah, but that is yet to be confirmed.

Lebanon seems to have chosen such a foolish path by allowing the country to be the puppet state for Iran and safe house for Hezbollah...the type of movement they wouldn't tolerate in their own state.

At some point, the IDF will turn the missiles onto any civilian site they think might be harbouring Hezbollah forces and weaponry until Lebanon looks like Gaza.

Massive blasts in Beirut after renewed Israeli air strikes

Explosions are seen close to Beirut's airport as Israel continues targeting Hezbollah in Lebanon.

www.bbc.com

 

[KaraBulut]

...Lebanon seems to have chosen such a foolish path by allowing the country to be the puppet state for Iran and safe house for Hezbollah...the type of movement they wouldn't tolerate in their own state.

They didn't really choose this path. Iran and Israel have been having a proxy war in Lebanon. The Lebanese public blames Israel for their problems.

Lebanon has been a failed state for decades and it's only gotten worse in the past 5 years. Lebanon has become the center of a battle between Maronite Christians, Druze, Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims. The 15 year Civil War at the end of the 20th century triggered an exodus of over 1 million upper to middle class people out of Lebanon. Israel's internal battles have triggered between 300,000 to 400,000 Palestinians to flee to southern Lebanon since the 1948 war.

The friends that I have who lived in Lebanon describe living conditions that sound more like a failed third world country.

The country really never recovered from the assassination of Rafic Hariri, the Sunni Prime Minister, in 2005. Their Parliament has been unable to elect a President. The head of Lebanon's central bank embezzled millions and their banking system has collapsed. Their currency is worthless. The explosion in 2020 in Beirut took out a grain storage facility that was a key source of food for the country. The Lebanese people live without food, power and gasoline. Everything is dependent on a black market that operates on foreign currency.

Shiite Hezbollah (and Iran) control Lebanon because of a leadership vacuum. No one is in charge and the day-to-day life in Lebanon is dependent upon the weird militia-charity conglomerate that is Hezbollah. What Israel is currently doing is going to be more like an occupation of Lebanon and it's likely to just expand the conflict into a regional war.

 

[rareboy]

That certainly states the case perfectly and I was foolish for seeming to blame them for some kind of fecklessness.

I suppose I keep thinking of Lebanon as having some political structure and power of citizens left, but you are right. You remind us that they don't and it is the poor leadership and lack of leadership that has resulted in them being held hostage in this proxy battle.

 

[KaraBulut]

That certainly states the case perfectly and I was foolish for seeming to blame them for some kind of fecklessness.

I suppose I keep thinking of Lebanon as having some political structure and power of citizens left, but you are right. You remind us that they don't and it is the poor leadership and lack of leadership that has resulted in them being held hostage in this proxy battle.

One thing that I noticed a while back is that my Lebanese-American friends have a strong ethnic identity as Lebanese but no one ever talks about going back to live in Lebanon. I wondered why. Now that I understand more about the situation, I realize that there's nothing to go back to.

The stuff in the middle east is incredibly complicated. It's complicated even more because, in discussions with Jewish friends, I get one view of the history but when talking with friends from nearby countries, I get a completely different view of the events.

It's difficult to comprehend how Lebanon, once the Riviera of the Mediterranean, has devolved into a third world country. One-by-one all of these countries devolve into chaos, millions of people flee to Europe and the Americas, the population become increasingly radicalized and the radicalism influences religious populations across the globe.

There's a reason why a lot of terrorism in the world has a connection to this part of the world.

 

[TX-Beau]

One thing that I noticed a while back is that my Lebanese-American friends have a strong ethnic identity as Lebanese but no one ever talks about going back to live in Lebanon. I wondered why. Now that I understand more about the situation, I realize that there's nothing to go back to.

The stuff in the middle east is incredibly complicated. It's complicated even more because, in discussions with Jewish friends, I get one view of the history but when talking with friends from nearby countries, I get a completely different view of the events.

It's difficult to comprehend how Lebanon, once the Riviera of the Mediterranean, has devolved into a third world country. One-by-one all of these countries devolve into chaos, millions of people flee to Europe and the Americas, the population become increasingly radicalized and the radicalism influences religious populations across the globe.

There's a reason why a lot of terrorism in the world has a connection to this part of the world.

Isn't the Riveria of the Med the, uh, Riveria...

(ducking)

 

[rareboy]

One thing that I noticed a while back is that my Lebanese-American friends have a strong ethnic identity as Lebanese but no one ever talks about going back to live in Lebanon. I wondered why. Now that I understand more about the situation, I realize that there's nothing to go back to.

The stuff in the middle east is incredibly complicated. It's complicated even more because, in discussions with Jewish friends, I get one view of the history but when talking with friends from nearby countries, I get a completely different view of the events.

It's difficult to comprehend how Lebanon, once the Riviera of the Mediterranean, has devolved into a third world country. One-by-one all of these countries devolve into chaos, millions of people flee to Europe and the Americas, the population become increasingly radicalized and the radicalism influences religious populations across the globe.

There's a reason why a lot of terrorism in the world has a connection to this part of the world.

And I should have known that from my own experience. Canada has many Lebanese families who fled the wars and the sectarian nonsense and it is true. They have no intention of going back.

I fear (and am somewhat chastened and now depressed by the realization) that Lebanon is also a lost cause, like Syria and Gaza...another middle eastern country despolied by religious Abrahamic bronze age tribalism. And plundered by those who know how to strip a dying body bare of anything of value.

 

[KaraBulut]

Isn't the Riveria of the Med the, uh, Riveria...

(ducking)

C'est la Côte d'Azur, pas "Riviera".

This is what Lebanon looked like before the war. Notice the lack of head scarves and hijabs. Dick and Liz used to vacation there.

This is now. The coast is still beautiful. Notice that it's all men on the beach and that the women are covered on the street.

 

[KaraBulut]

...I fear (and am somewhat chastened and now depressed by the realization) that Lebanon is also a lost cause, like Syria and Gaza...another middle eastern country despolied by religious Abrahamic bronze age tribalism. And plundered by those who know how to strip a dying body bare of anything of value.

Earlier waves of immigration from Palestine, Lebanon, Iran, et al were more educated and westernized. They blended easier into their new countries.

The immigrants fleeing discriminate bombing and failed countries these days are less educated, impoverished and less prepared to assimilate into their new homes.

And the fallout is a rise of anti-immigrant sentiment across Europe and the Americas. No one benefits from what is going on in the middle east, yet no one is willing to intervene.

 

[TX-Beau]

I'm certainly not willing to intervene. A pox on both their houses.

We can't solve their problems with each other.

 

[KaraBulut]

I'm certainly not willing to intervene. A pox on both their houses.

We can't solve their problems with each other.

The UN attempted to, at one time.

But anytime the mess comes up for discussion, the US makes the non-statement, "Israel has a right to defend itself", and vetos anything that comes in front of the UN.

 

[KaraBulut]

CNN did a visual story showing the extent of the leveling of Gaza:

Flattened in a year: How Israeli bombardment reduced most of Gaza to rubble

Palestinians in Gaza say they are barely surviving, let alone able to rebuild, after one year of Israel’s bombardment and siege, which has decimated the healthcare system, damaged cultural sites, eviscerated academic institutions, and spawned a humanitarian crisis of hunger, displacement and...

www.cnn.com

Over 50% of the buildings in Gaza have been damaged or destroyed.

 

[rareboy]

Israel's intent is to make Gaz uninhabitable for Palestinians.

And then seize the ruins for lebensruam.

 

[KaraBulut]

Deliberate attacks on UN... killing Lebanese citizens in their home... bombing schools in Gaza... more "collateral damage" while "defending itself"...

Israel Targets Peacekeepers in Lebanon, U.N. Says

The U.N. mission warned that deliberate attacks on its forces violate international humanitarian law.

foreignpolicy.com

“UNIFIL’s Naqoura headquarters and nearby positions have been repeatedly hit,” the UN mission said in a statement. “This morning, two peacekeepers were injured after an IDF Merkava tank fired its weapon toward an observation tower at UNIFIL’s headquarters in Naqoura, directly hitting it and causing them to fall.

“The injuries are fortunately, this time, not serious, but they remain in hospital.”

UN peacekeepers are present in south Lebanon to support a return to stability under a 2006 Security Council mandate. Any deliberate attack on peacekeepers is a grave violation of international humanitarian law and of Security Council resolution 1701, according to UNIFIL, the UN Interim Force in Lebanon.

Israel bombs residential buildings in ‘heart’ of Lebanon’s Beirut, kills 22

Lebanon’s health ministry says at least 117 others wounded in strikes on areas outside frequently hit Dahiyeh.

www.aljazeera.com

An Israeli attack has hit central Beirut, Lebanon, outside of the city’s southern suburbs where attacks are regular, killing at least 22 and wounding another 117 people.
An Israeli attack on a school shelter in central Gaza has killed at least 28 people and wounded many more, health officials say.

 

[rareboy]

At this moment, I am listening to Bernie Sanders speech to the Senate urging passage of a bill to restrict arms sales to Israel.

Is anyone else in the US listening?

It puts him on the right side of history even though we know the feckless defenders of Zionist colonialism will give Netanyahu the means to continue his genocide and other war crimes.

Humanity has no shame.

 

[rareboy]

What? Nothing about a Biden brokered cease fire between Lebanon and Israel?

I don't truat either side so I am not hopeful for the long term, but it is literally the first forward step in months.

 

[KaraBulut]

Parting shots from the Biden Administration...

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/03/politics/biden-administration-planned-israel-arms-sale/index.html

The State Department has informally notified Congress that it intends to sell $8 billion in arms to Israel, a US official and another source familiar with the matter told CNN.

The State Department sent the House Foreign Affairs Committee and Senate Foreign Relations Committee the informal notification of the sale on Friday, the first day of the new Congress and just weeks before the Biden administration leaves office. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu last year accused the Biden administration of withholding weapons to Israel – a claim a Biden envoy called “unproductive” and “more importantly, completely untrue.”

Israel continues to face accusations from human rights groups of violations of international law, including in its use of US weapons, in its war with Hamas in Gaza, where tens of thousands have been killed. In May, the State Department said it was “reasonable to assess” that US weapons had been used by Israeli forces in Gaza in ways that are “inconsistent” with international humanitarian law but stopped short of officially saying Israel had violated the law.

 

[Dargelos]

At last, good news, it looks like a real cease fire is going to happen.
Great thanks for all who have worked for this.
Contempt for those who will claim credit when they have done nothing to help.

 

[rareboy]

At last, good news, it looks like a real cease fire is going to happen.
Great thanks for all who have worked for this.
Contempt for those who will claim credit when they have done nothing to help.

Netanyahu orchestrated it to coincide with Trump's inauguration.

The fact that he may have let Israeli hostages remain in captivity and thousands more Palestinians die while he was waiting to provide his fellow tough guy Trump with a PR win is unconscionable...but pales in comparison to the genocide he has committed.

 

[NotHardUp1]

The cease fire seems to be ending. Israel has blocked the North and has refused to withdraw from South Gaza on schedule, and the deadline has now passed.

Trump is resuming shipmenet of 2,000 pound bombs to Israel.

The "peace" that candidate Trump swore he'd bring in appears as unlikely as ever, and his pro-Israel bias is unsurprisingly showing.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...last-beyond-60-days-pm-netanyahus-2025-01-24/

 

[rareboy]

wellll duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

When he is talking about 'clearing out' Gaza and the great development opportunities it affords...we all knew that Netanyahu would just bide time until Trump got thos big boms delivered to 'cleanse' Gaza once and for all.