Undying love for my best friend...please read(long

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

CG... I only got one problem with your advice...he was with his girl for 4 years BEFORE i met him...so what does that tell you? Obviously he likes having sex with her and being with her...



When I came into his life it changed things, he told me that many times, he said he turned over a new leaf..sometimes I wonder if he means more than that...regardless I know when I met him I was the catalyst for him to move to Las Vegas and if we didnt meet each other we both would not be in the places/positions/and be the people we are today without each other.


They were together for 4 years before I met them and like 3 weeks after I met him he and his girl had his engagement party...I didnt really know him, know him at that point...

He still still about having kids and getting married here and there...about providing the wedding that his girl wants, etc...I admittedly get down when I hear that..but cannot help but notice hes not married yet..yes thats partly because they have little money, but many times she wanted to just go to the city and the justice of the peace and just get a quick one just so they could both have health insurance and he got cold feet...I dunno...bri

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

CG Please dont stop giving me advice in here, dont know if you were kidding or not..but please dont.

And I AM going to tell him very soon, like in the next few phone calls, please just bare with me. I am NOT torturing him at all, please you all have to know that. Ii am going to speak my heart with him soon.

And yes Andy is beautiful and everything he does or says and makes me feel that way too..I really love him a lot. bri

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Don't worry Brian, I was just trying to jolt you into action. You know Andy better than us, do it however it feels best...you just have to KNOW that he knows already...rip that bandaid off!

Knew her for 4 years, eh? So, that's his big problem. Lots of gay men marry women to try to pass, to convince themselves that they're straight, and so on. He may have known her longer, but he obviously loves you more.

Didn't you say in your first post that they slept in spearate beds? Maybe not anymore, but...the fact that he's known her for longer doesn't mean he doesn't love you more. It's not obvious that he likes sex with her...or maybe he does. Maybe you can't be together. Maybe he does love having sex with her and won't even want to give that up. But at least you'll be able to talk about it. Your having sex with Matt, do you love Matt more? Is Andy your emotional release and Matt your sexual release? There's someone in your life, too.

No of course he's not married yet. He's waiting for you you you dumb fuck! Sorry man, but I seriously. He talks about getting married and kids because...well, what do you expect him to say? The only person he'll go gay for is you...and you've made it clear on several occasions that you're not interested...so what's he supposed to talk about? Perhaps he's hoping that you'll say, "Don't get married, I love you!"

Besides, you're asking these questiuons because you're afraid that he might not love you back, or you might not be able to be together. these are q's you need to deal with with Andy, not us. When you start being honest with him...you can ask him these questions. He's dying to answer you.

 

[halubtsi]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Bri, I've known people who've gone out for years and never get engaged. They break up, and get new partners and get engaged a few months after they started going out. Do I think it's odd behaviour? Of course. But it does happen.

Many times people will hold on to their gfs/bfs because it's comfortable. They'll even get engaged because it's the "logical" thing to do. It's what's expected of them. What does love feel like anyway? Does Andy feel the same way for his girlfriend as he does you? What feeling does he get when he sees/hears his girlfriend? What feeling does he get when he sees/hears you?

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Well said, halubtsi. You've given some really great advice here.

Imagine, as scared as you are right now to tell him that you love him, even when you know full well that he already knows and loves you back, imagine how scared he's have to be to tell his fiance that he's leaving her for the guy she always said he was going to leave her for. ("Honey, remember all those fights where you said I loved Brian more than you, and if I loved him so much why didn't I just go be with him? Welll...")

I know full well my second guy loves me more than his wife...he HATES her and she cheats on him, but I don't think he'll ever be able to divorce her and leave his kids, he's stuck there. But the fact that he's with her proves nothing, except that he's stuck in a loveless horror of a marriage and is afraid of what his fambly would say if he moved out to be with me. She actually threatened to tell all his friends that he was gay and fell for his next door neighbor, but she never did it because if she had outted him, he wouldn't have anything to hide anymore and he'd leave her for me. It keeps him in lockdown though. She actually coorced him into having another kid so he's feel guiltier about leaving her with 2 kids than with just 1. Some day, she's going to push him too far, or she'll flip out and kick him out.

That's why you have to shake up his comfort level a bit. That's why, when he asks, do you want me to break up with my girl and be with you, you must have the balls to say "YES!" Whether he can or not, he has to know that's a possibility he can even consider...and then the idea will grow in his head, and before long he may decide that he has to get up the balls to tell her. But if you don't make your desires clear, he'll just think, oh well, I'd better just make the best of this. You must have the guts to be absolutely truthful with him about what you want...or we'll go through this whole thing again.

Here's the thing though. The girl in these situations always knows. Like my neighbor's wife ("You're in love with him aren't you?! You're in love with our next door neighbor!"), the girl knows full well what is coming. She may be looking for a way out, too. She may be hoping just as hard that he is really straight and he'll get over you. But she knows and if you help end their relationship and get together with him, you're not going to be a homewrecker, you'll be a home saver. Things are out of whack for all three of you right now, and only when you start being honest and all of you are dealing with the shining light of truth again will you have any idea of the landscape you're all standing in. Telling Andy won't solve all your problems...but it will be like turning the light on and you can then deal with all these secondary issues. Where you're living, who he's marrying, all these are problems that can be dealt with as friends...don't even stress about them until you've dealth with the task at hand.

You say you're not torturing him...maybe. Just remember, however stressed you are, he is many times more stressed than you. You owe it to your buddy to take that weight off his shoulders. Cuz believe it or not, he's carrying a lot more weight than you are.

He agreed with me saying "you think your problems are bad?? Trust me I have it much worse

Stop thinking about yourself and your problems, Brian, because you don't have any problems (you want Andy to be in love with you and he is). Your best mate Andy has some serious problems, which he can't even begin to deal with until you open up and trust him.

He needs help with the fact that he's in love with a man who is not his fiancee, that he's stuck jobless far away from his true love with a woman he would rather not be with anymore, with the fact that he feels like he wasn't able to be honest with you and that will prolly cause him guilt...it's Andy that needs you, not the reverse.

Just keep that in mind. You have backup...the minute you get off the phone you'll be posting. The minute he gets off the phone, his girl will be like "Are you talking to Brian again?!"

Only by being honest can you help Andy figure out what he wants. So call him up and be honest. He already knows! Trust him! trust your friend! He's saying "trust me", and yet you can't trust him. What does this say for any future relationship you may have? Trust him.

And let us know how it works out.

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Here's the thing though. The girl in these situations always knows. Like my neighbor's wife ("You're in love with him aren't you?! You're in love with our next door neighbor!"), the girl knows full well what is coming. She may be looking for a way out, too. She may be hoping just as hard that he is really straight and he'll get over you. But she knows and if you help end their relationship and get together with him, you're not going to be a homewrecker, you'll be a home saver. Things are out of whack for all three of you right now, and only when you start being honest and all of you are dealing with the shining light of truth again will you have any idea of the landscape you're all standing in. Telling Andy won't solve all your problems...but it will be like turning the light on and you can then deal with all these secondary issues.

I do think on some level she knows...I think that she thinks that he spends way too much time talking to me,she knows that he only listens to me when it comes to advice....she now knows I am gay...my buddy for some odd reason hasd been mistaken by guys in the gym for being gay before, a few times...one time we were all in the car, this was before i was out, and he said something to her to the effect that..oh remember when that guy at the gym used to think I was gay..and I didnt add anything to the talk..I think in some ways she feels threatened by the friendship...I dunno, talk to you all soon, brian

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Dude, don't call him. Get on a a plane and fly to Las Vegas. Who even cares how much it costs.

I'm only half-kidding...I don't know if you can afford a last-minute planeride to Vegas...maybe Priceline? But if you wanted to make sure you two ended up together, that would be the way to do it. Something romantic to sweep him off his feet...

 

[Lestat62]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

CGHJ,

I hope you're available when I need to talk to family and friends. I love your advice and your translations even more. I've been reading Andy's comments the same way. Thanks for being more staightforward and stating so right. Joe.

Brian,

You need to call Andy. If you feel he's ready to tell you that he's in love with you, you do it first. It'll take alot of pressure off him and you guys can then take the next step. Joe.

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I can't believe I'm devoting so much time to this. But it's just so obvious...and it drives me nuts that it's not obvious to Brian. And if I can just ram this thru his thick skull, hapiness can be his.

So this post is on page 9:

LostVegas------------------------------

He called me back and said "Whats up buddy?" and I said "Whats up?" and then he proceeded to break down and bawl and cry and sob like I have never heard him do before.

Dude, str8 men don't sob to their buddies.

He said that he misses me too much and that I dont begin to even know how much he misses me. He said that he is too alone out there and he wants to come home. He said he is losing hope and he feels like he cannot get a break and he feels a large weight on his shoulders.

Translation: I love you, and I want to come to NY and be with you.

I felt really bad for him. I wanted to hug him so much. I said buddy its ok, cry it out. Im here. He cried so much and for so long I was worried for him.

Some measure of how much he loves you, maybe?

He said we have to work on me coming out there sooner and that a year is too long and that even August is too long. He said he misses his walks and talks with me and the littlest things. We talked for close to two hours about this and after a while he said he needs to call me back, he had to vomit.

Only Love, posoining or illness make us vomit. Also, Str8 dudes don't "miss little things". This is what someone says when they are in love. I guarantee you he never gets this mushy with his girl anymore.

He calls me back and the first thing he said was that he misses me and he knows he sounds like a broken record. I told him I miss him in ways that he doesnt know either.

Again, in love. this is sweeter than str8 friends ever, ever get with each other, even the mushy ones.

He said he has been lying and things have not been ok out there and that me being there would make him feel comfortable. He said he is thinking about coming home, even though he hates NYC, just to be near me.

This is where you were supposed to say, "That's the best idea I've ever fucking herard! Come to New York and be near me!" In fact, it's the second time he's mentioned it...hoping that you would indicate that you wanted him to move back.

After a while I talked to him and calmed him down. We started talking about other things. Movies. Vegas. NYC., etc..

Wait, he wanted to come to NY to be with you and you talked him out of it? Brian, Brian, Brian...why do you doubt that he wants to be with you when he has stated so clearly that he wants to be with you?

And then the whole topic completely shifted.

And then Andy got deperate, since obviously you had no clue.

He asked me how therapy is going and I said I dont go anymore. He said and how is the OTHER thing going. And I go what? He says, you know what we talked about. And I said nothing much.

Translation: I'm desperate to talk about the gay topic because I'm hoping something will come up that will allow us to admit that we love each other. I can;t stand to be away from Brian another minute but I don't know what to do about it.

He asked if Ii had been seeing anyone. He also asked about what type of guy that Im into. I said recently I had been with a guy Matt who is a personal trainer at Crunch gym..hes like get out Ballys(the company my buddy used to work for) owns that. I said cool and he goes whats his name maybe I know him. I said his name but it didnt ring a bell. He asked me if this guy Matt had tattoos and I said no. After I went on about Matt my buddy said "yeah I have to get back in shape"

Translation: I hope beyond hope that he's into guys like me. Oh wait...he's into personal trainers and he's found a new one...Brian must not be attracted to me because I'm getting out of shape...

He then said that if he were to go the other way he would have to be the man..I said excuse me?? lol And he said nevermind. He asked me if Im the man when we have sex..I said yes lol. I went ont o say that Im into manly men..and for some reason I guess he got all defensive and said "Well I cant help you out there!" I was like ok....

Ding ding ding!! Translation: I'm so curious and I want to try it with you but I'm afraid of taking it up the ass, I'm worried about my masculinity, I'm worried about what it means to go gay but I would definitely go gay for you.

Then he asks you, cuz he wants to know when you get together, what role he'll have to take. Then you once again indicate he's not your type. For him this is like it is for you when he talks about driving with his girl. If only you were attracted to him physically, thinks Andy. It's your problem with his girl in reverse...he thinks you value him emotionally, but want Matt for sex. He wishes you were attracted to him so bad...

--- this is from another post on the same page ----

He said "hey I know I have some gay tendencies Bri..".....I was in shock and just went on saying something else...and he goes "you heard me right? I said I have some gay tendencies..." He said this very non-chalantly but I was so in shock I just changed the subject..I didnt know what to say..

Here he tries to come out to you...you're wondering if he's gay, and when he tried to come out to you you blew right on past it buddy! Or at least, he's trying to tell you that he's gay enough for you.

We went on to talk about Matt and he asked what kind of shape he is in, etc.

Poor little guy is thinking he's gonna have to go back to the gym to win you back, and you're wondering if he loves you. Sigh.

------------

Brian, I realize I'm being a little harsh by rubbing this in your face...but do you see how clear it is that he is gay and in love with you? How he's tried to tell you several times already? Do I have to go thru and translate ALL your conversations for you?

You don't even realize how far beyond this you already are. He so wants to tell you, he's tried to tell you, he so wants for you to be in love with him it's heartbreaking. You two shouldn't be apart another minute.

Amazingly, it's you that's indicated that you're not interested to him.

If you love him, prove it by telling him so right now! Don't wait, don't delay, call him right now and say "I love you and I want to be with you." Prove how much you love him by trusting him enough to tell him so. It is NOT wishful thinking, dude, he is in love with you! You're about to make him the happiest man in, well, at least Las Vegas.

Sure, you could hint and hem and haw and peck and get to it...but just coming out and say it will prove to him how much you love him, and be the kind of proof he needs to see to know it's safe for him to admit that he loves you.

Trust me Brian, prove to him right now how close you are by trusting him with this.

Call him right now, and read these words right off the screen:

"Andy, I love you and I want to be with you."

TRUST HIM!!!

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I so hope you're not posting cuz yer on the phone right now Brian...good luck!

 

[halubtsi]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

CGHJ, Brian's green light is off for the time being, so he's not on the site...Hopefully he's on the phone. Kudos to you buddy. You've been doling out some pretty great advice. It's nice to see optimism in this thread.

Brian...I'm praying for you buddy. I hope you get that dose of courage that you need.

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

CGHJ, Brian's green light is off for the time being, so he's not on the site...Hopefully he's on the phone.

I had no idea that's what that was! I bet he is though. I sure hope he's found the strength to tell Andy the words we know he's dying to hear.

Thanks man...it's easy in this case cuz it's so damned obvious. If I was at all worried what Andy's reaction would be I would't be so cavalier. They just love each other so much, how can they not be together? They miss each other so much they vomit! That's true love.

 

[halubtsi]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Yes, you're right. Nothing says "I love you" like vomit. lol.

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Will try to make this short.

Laying in bed when Andy called and I picked up.

I talked about Dante and my masters classes and the weather here and I noticed he was down.

I said whats up? He goes I dont want to bring down your mood.

Said he was worried about money. I said bro the job you are going for is working out. I am helping you tomorrow and I will always be here for you. He goes thanks but Im just so down.

I went over point by point how him getting over bankruptcy and starting to save will come(surely but slowly) when he finds and maintains work.

He goes its not that simple...I go bro, its a very hard thing you are going through.

He said "the man upstairs" keeps testing him and I said bro, God loves you, but he has nothing to do with you filing for bankruptcy, for money matters, these are material things.

He kept saying he was down. I go bro, point by point walk with me here..I go bankruptcy if you want I will help you with. There, thats done. You are getting a job soon(hopefully) and that will start you to saving up....He kept saying his mind is fucked up and god was doing things to his head.

I go Andy, what else..talk to me..and he got firm and said "you want to know buddy? you really want to know? im broken hearted, my heart is broken ..I miss hanging out and being able to chill when we want...I hear it in your voice...I know you are going to stay in NYC...I go Andy Ill be there in August and in a year Ill be there when Im done with everything....he goes buddy..I want you out here now, you can easily get a teaching job out here...I said I dont know...I need to definitely at least finish my masters here. he asked me to think of a plan..anything that sounded rational, and that hed swear hes listen to it...He said he doesnt like that Im so far away and I sound distant on the phone.

I told him I was broken hearted too by his leaving. He said he wished he could turn back time because he would have never left Vegas for Brooklyn...I told him hes got people who miss him over here..he said F them, you are the only one who misses me from NYC or even cares about me.

His girl interrupted some times and at one point he said "ill be in in two minutes"..then later on he had to go..he said to stay up that he will call me in an hour..Hopefully his girl wont be there so we can talk better...Brian

will probably update you in the wee hours..payce Brian

P.S.I know i know, still didnt say what I need to say..i promise I will try,

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

It's a good thing you live in Brooklyn Brian, or I would kick you right in the nuts. I'm beginning to think that you don't deserve him. Good lord...I'm gonna go to Vegas so I can be his rebound guy. He sounds like such an awesome guy, he needs a FRIEND THAT TRUSTS HIM.

Tell him you love him or I am so gonna let you have it. Trust me, you don't want to hear me go off.

He was so hoping that you would tell him you love him...he finally gets up the nerve to say his heart was broken when he left you, that he wants to be with you now, and that he'l listen to any rational plan that brings you toghether. He's desperate to be with you, but thinks that he'll just have to suffer through being your buddy while you go after the masculine guys you seem to like. He's tormented...and you left him twisting.

He is making every effort...trying over and over again, to get you two together...and he keeps bgetting shot down. When is he going to take the hint that you're not interested? Soon?

When he calls you, tell him that you love him and that you want to be with him. For fucks sake, tell him. He's begging you. If you can't tell this person, who loves you more than any other, who wants to only be with you, who vomits when you are apart, who will do almost anything to be together with you again...if you can't tell him that you love him, then I just don't know what to tell you brother.

He's dying a little every moment you're apart. For god sake, throw him a bone! You're driving me mad dude, absolutely mad.

It's just so fucked up, as he's prolly sitting along crying right now wishing that you loved him as much as he loves you. "If only me and Brian could be together" he's thinking. It just sucks that the one man he loves happens to be gay and yet isn't interested in him.

He gives you opportunity after opportunity, lead in after lead in. Lucky I'm here to translate for you in near-real time. When he says that he'll listen to any rational plan that brings you together, he means that HE WANTS TO BE WITH YOU, all you have to do is come up with the plan. Your dream has come true...right? You do want to be with him, right? Tell him you have an irrational plan. Tell him the only way you could possibly come to Vegas is if he was your boyfriend. Tell him jokingly if you have to. He desperately wants you to save him, SO FUCKING SAVE HIM already. Get on your goddamn white horse and sweep the little fucker off his feet, and into your arms, so you can both finally be happy.

I'll be checking back all night. DON'T disappoint me.

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

really encourages ppl, holds the nerves back, n gets em straight into wot they gotta do. i think its mutual. ur 1 bold dude when it comes to this stuff!

Thanks mate...I'm doin' this for Andy, not Brian anymore. It's clear that Andy's the one that's really hurting. I so want to go to Vegas and help him out, he sounds like such a great guy.

He kept saying his mind is fucked up and god was doing things to his head.

Translation: I am so in love with you it's making me crazy. I'd leave my girl right now if it meant we could be together again.

In what other way would God possibly be fucking with his head that involved him being heartbroken for you? Hello? What do you think is fucking with his head, that makes him miss you so much, that breaks his heart, that makes him wish he had never left NY, but his deep and apparently unrequited love for you? Not only is he stuck in LV with this girl, and he's in love with a man, but the man he loves isn't even interested in him.

Tell him dude or I am seriously gonna flip out. It's driving me mad! lil_C_boy is right, he needs to hear it from you. lil_c_boy is also right about "my heart is broken" being an opening, so is "any rational plan"

Let me tell you a little about what is at stake. Andy will soon be convinced that he was wrong, that you do not love him, so he will stop saying loving things like he does now, which you could misinterperate as him not loving you. He continually gives you openings so that you can tell him, but you keep rejecting those openings, and sooner or later he's going to catch on that you're not interested.

TRUST HIM!!!!

Because, knowing what you know, if you don't trust him, you should move on and let him get on with his life. Up to you buddy.

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

OKAY, one more bud. I so hope that you're talking to him right now and this is moot though.

Let's look at this logically:

Obviously he knows what you're about to say, he has said so alreay. Or at least, he hopes in his heart that he thinks he knows what you might be goingf to say...but we know he's right.

If he was in any way freaked out by it, wouldn't it be him trying to avoid the subject instead of you? Wouldn't he be changing the subect to sports, or his girlfriend, or something?

All he's done is given you opportunity after opportunity after opportunity. Are these the actions of a man who will freak out when you tell him? No, these are the actions of a man who wants very badly for you to tell him.

If he didn't want to hear "I love you" from you, he would be avoiding the subject at all costs. Instead he tries to steer the conversation there. How much more wonderful and open do you want him to be?

Your new life together begins as soon as you can say it. Keep in mind that although he loves you, it may still be difficult for him to separate from his girl, that's something you two will have to work out. We'll help you deal with all that next...don't worry about it now.

Just think about how badly he wants you to say it!

I said before that I would bet my nuts that he would at least be cool with it if you told him, but I wouldn't risk the jewels on anything else. Now, I'd have to say I'd bet my left nut at least, maybe both even, that he's deeply, deeply in love with you.

There are few couples in this world that have the love you have. It's so beautiful. Very rarely have I ever seen any two people who were so in love with each other. It's like you've won the lottery and you don't even know it...or refuse to believe it is polly a better way of saying it. Freakin get married and go on a cruise already!

 

[clorox]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

So much work
There was a time
When I thought I knew you
So much for that afternoon
They became their only rescue
They connect in the afternoon
And he says "I know about your man"
...and their hearts will broken if you can't decide between them
So much longer wind on the phone
You don't have to answer, have to walk alone
So much work
And it's the same sad song coming back again
The same old song, flows back again
And you don't have to live on your own
It's a lie in the end, you only satisfy your friends
And you don't heal if you won't (don't) bring it home
You don't have to settle
(Don't) have to say you won't
You can stay
You don't have to walk alone.

 

[clorox]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

It's a song by Pete Yorn, I thought that a lot of the lines fit in with what Brian has been going through and wanted to share.

So Much Work​

There was a time
She could never see him
And her fault
Was to always need him
They became their only rescue
They connect
They connect
And he says, "I know about your son."
That he feels so much older than he was
When she only talks about her son
So much work
There was a time
When I thought I knew you
So much for that afternoon
They became their only rescue
They connect in the afternoon
And he says "I know about your man"
...and their hearts will broken if you can't decide between them
So much longer wind on the phone
You don't have to answer, have to walk alone
So much work
And it's the same sad song coming back again
The same old song, flows back again
And you don't have to live on your own
It's a lie in the end, you only satisfy your friends
And you don't heal if you won't (don't) bring it home
You don't have to settle
(Don't) have to say you won't
You can stay
You don't have to walk alone.

lol the stuff at the start of it doesn't really apply

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I have always thought the you were not the only one coming to terms with their feelings.

Isn't it ironic, all this time you have been stressing about telling him, and now he may tell you first?

Let us know what happens.
J.

My thoughts exactly!
Brian, you GOTTA stop stalling! You said you were dropping hints, but dude, he was handing you openings! What do you want him to do, BEG you to tell him?

Sheesh! Come ON....