Is liking twinks pedophilia?

[luckynumbah7]

I could instead look not to age but to inter-connecting human understanding of the other's readiness

Well, no, not really. Because people tend to be self serving, including talking themselves into what they want that they know they prolly shouldn't be doing, whether that's eating a donut or screwing the babysitter. You meant readyness to engage in sexual contact, yes? Except people aren't interchangeable and having sex with a classmate/peer isn't quite the same as someone twenty years your senior, (or vise versa) even taking all else into consideration. The difference is knowledge and experience. When half the equation usually doesn't (and won't) have the skills to navigate such things it seems disingenuous to pretend there's not a huge ethical loophole. Fuck morals, look at ethics.

 

[rareboy]

PeeOnMe, you have a lot of good ideals, but I don't feel you're quite in sync with the very point I'm trying to get across. Again, I don't doubt society's well-meaning intentions to 'protect the innocent'. My post was meant to invite you to think outside the cubicle.

What is considered 'innocent' of a teen boy who has a level of mature sexual capacity and wants to fuck an adult man? What is considered 'predatory' of the hot adult man who lets the boy? Why should the older man have to "know better and refrain" when the man is not doing any damage?

My point: the law, as well as it's worked, is not all that accurate and honest in representing the people they are meant to protect. When I was 14, I hit up and did a cute adult man; he wanted it but couldn't say yes, so I kept inviting him to have me. What damage have I sustained, and what predatory behaviour had this innocent older man exude? Rareboy, here, admits himself too to be in the same boat. See? Already, that makes two.

As an adult man I wouldn't have sex with teens myself. That's how the 18-AoC has conditioned me, and I know that. If not for what this good upright laws have taught me, I could instead look not to age but to inter-connecting human understanding of the other's readiness (or lack of) to have sex as my sexual moral guidance. I think that will go the same for you and your 16-year-old 'limit'; one that you have created for yourself.

Again, I know there are moral coojswahs who are fully prepared to brand me a "pedophile" or a "pedophile-enabler"; or a "potential pedophile", if I may add to the list. Maybe they'll even try to get the police involve to track my IP, despite having not committed a crime. All the more power to them. I'm sorry that my considerably moral judgement is different than theirs to the point where they can't accept things that are different than their own. I really am. (Stereotypically typical American much?)

But while I said I would have...I never did. The opportunity never arose. I will never know what the impact might have been.

But I think I made it clear when I indicated that I don't think there should be exceptions. The fact is...while I might have thought I was ready, I think that a society has to draw a line for both the sake of the teenager and the adults. There were lots of things that I might or would have done as a teenager that I was not permitted to do because society has drawn lines around these activities.

So driving, drinking and smoking are all things that I also might have wanted to do at 14...and might have thought I was ready to do...but for better or worse, there are proscriptions in place that are intended to protect the majority of kids at that age from self-harm.

As much as you might want to rationalize exceptions based on your own personal experience and make a case for precocious behaviour being acceptable....the fact is, it should not be.

 

[Level27]

Well, no, not really. Because people tend to be self serving, including talking themselves into what they want that they know they prolly shouldn't be doing, whether that's eating a donut or screwing the babysitter.

That's very true, actually.

I suppose I was only speaking from my own experience: people tend to call me sensitive (in a good way), understanding and connect with the wants of others pretty well. I tend to fall into a dilusion that others will be the same way. xD

So, maybe my sentiment (which you quoted) works for me and me only.

Though, I think the rest of my point still substantially stands.

But while I said I would have...I never did. The opportunity never arose. I will never know what the impact might have been.

But I think I made it clear when I indicated that I don't think there should be exceptions. The fact is...while I might have thought I was ready, I think that a society has to draw a line for both the sake of the teenager and the adults. There were lots of things that I might or would have done as a teenager that I was not permitted to do because society has drawn lines around these activities.

So driving, drinking and smoking are all things that I also might have wanted to do at 14...and might have thought I was ready to do...but for better or worse, there are proscriptions in place that are intended to protect the majority of kids at that age from self-harm.

Here's just the thing, though: do we punish adults who hand 15-year-olds cigarettes? Do we shame mothers in society when they allow their 13-year-olds to have drinks?

Why do we shame an adult who lets 14-year-olds do them?

As much as you might want to rationalize exceptions based on your own personal experience and make a case for precocious behaviour being acceptable....the fact is, it should not be.

Point taken.

However, how much of an 'exception' am I, really? I'm not some weird heaven-sent spirit manifested in human form, am I? If this was my experience, who knows how many other experiences may be similar to mine. Already, you seem to admit that yours would have been had it not been for "society drawing the line".

Laws outside the USA, to remind you, handle precocious behaviour in a different way than we do. Again, I point to estupro laws in Latin-America.

 

[Alnitak]

I'm finding that 18 year olds seem younger to me than they used to.

 

[refujiunderground]

at first, i thought this was a troll or shock value type of post but then i thought about bryan singer's trifling ass. some men just like skinny young men. then there's others that might have a kiddie fetish like bryan singer's pedophile ass.

 

[Level27]

I skipped over this portion of your post.

...people aren't interchangeable and having sex with a classmate/peer isn't quite the same as someone twenty years your senior, (or vise versa) even taking all else into consideration. The difference is knowledge and experience. When half the equation usually doesn't (and won't) have the skills to navigate such things it seems disingenuous to pretend there's not a huge ethical loophole. Fuck morals, look at ethics.

I actually already addressed this point with PeeOnMe.

We don't shame 45-year-old's as monsters for having sex with 19-year-old's, and they are at different points of development. (A 19-year-old, by the same logic, really isn't all that mature when having to deal with someone 2.5 times older.) Yet, we shout at the top of our lungs to stigmatize a 25-year-old who accepts a 15-year-old's request. Again, the double standard is ridiculous.

Maybe the latter really is an 'exception' to the trend. Why shouldn't the law accommodate for such exceptions? I'm sorry for repetitively bringing up Estupro laws, but those Latin-American laws provide that kind of accommodation, see?

 

[refujiunderground]

I skipped over this portion of your post. I actually already addressed this point with PeeOnMe.

We don't shame 45-year-old's as monsters for having sex with 19-year-old's, and they are at different points of development. (A 19-year-old, by the same logic, really isn't all that mature when having to deal with someone 2.5 times older.) Yet, we shout at the top of our lungs to stigmatize a 25-year-old who accepts a 15-year-old's request. Again, the double standard is ridiculous.

Maybe the former is really an 'exception' to the trend. Why shouldn't the law accommodate for such exceptions? I'm sorry for repetitively bringing up Estupro laws, but those Latin-American laws provide that kind of accommodation, see?

sorry BUT no, breh. gtfoh with that pedophile shit.

if someone who is 19 years old wants to kick it with someone who's 20, 30 or more years older than them, then they can do that. who cares.

not to be offensive to anybody who's in such a relationship but i often find that people who are in those types of relationships where there is a huge age gap are in it for reasons that are usually not out of love. in other words, it's usually someone taking advantage of someone else or both people doing the same shit to each other. you can usually tell from how whoever acts too. you'll see the older guy being willing to let the younger guy do whatever he wants even if it's straight up disrespecting him or the older guy showering the younger guy with money or incentives just to keep him around. however, it's not in my business to judge a relationship that i'm not involved with.

 

[luckynumbah7]

I skipped over this portion of your post. I actually already addressed this point with PeeOnMe.

We don't shame 45-year-old's as monsters for having sex with 19-year-old's, and they are at different points of development. (A 19-year-old, by the same logic, really isn't all that mature when having to deal with someone 2.5 times older.) Yet, we shout at the top of our lungs to stigmatize a 25-year-old who accepts a 15-year-old's request. Again, the double standard is ridiculous.

Maybe the latter really is an 'exception' to the trend. Why shouldn't the law accommodate for such exceptions? I'm sorry for repetitively bringing up Estupro laws, but those Latin-American laws provide that kind of accommodation, see?

On the contrary, there's definitely a sort of shame when the age discrepancy is 45 to 19. There's shame for everything, how'd you miss it?

And it isn't the breadth of difference in knowledge but merely getting the bloody basics down. If (general!) you're still learning the basics of how to conduct adult-type relationships (as one does when they're fifteen) at, say, 45, then something went wrong somewhere. Which is the only way I can figure that anyone would like/appreciate that level of naivity.

-and frankly, I prefer to find relationships with people who are at least at my particular level of whatever-it-is I'm interacting with them for. Which has nothing to do with age, though most of my partners are older. Some by quite a bit. Still doesn't mean I've ever met a fifteen year old I think is anywhere near remotely mature enough to fuck.

 

[Level27]

sorry BUT no, breh. gtfoh with that pedophile shit.

if someone who is 19 years old wants to kick it with someone who's 20, 30 or more years older than them, then they can do that. who cares.

See? It was a matter of time.

Probably didn't even read my posts; probably don't care to. Probably will respond to my saying that he doesn't care to read my posts.

See how predictable these people are?

however, it's not in my business to judge a relationship that i'm not involved with.

You just did by calling my past 14-year-old consensual relationship with a 25-year-old as "pedophile shit".

Again, probably don't even know what I'm talking about.

On the contrary, there's definitely a sort of shame when the age discrepancy is 45 to 19. There's shame for everything, how'd you miss it?

And it isn't the breadth of difference in knowledge but merely getting the bloody basics down. If (general!) you're still learning the basics of how to conduct adult-type relationships (as one does when they're fifteen) at, say, 45, then something went wrong somewhere. Which is the only way I can figure that anyone would like/appreciate that level of naivity. (As a 14-16yo, I really wasn't much more sexually naive as what I am now.)

...

I prefer to find relationships with people who are at least at my particular level of whatever-it-is I'm interacting with them for. Which has nothing to do with age, .

As much as I don't show it, I agree with you.

However, do you realize you just contradicted yourself?

Would you judge readiness by age or not?

 

[luckynumbah7]

And it isn't the breadth of difference in knowledge but merely getting the bloody basics down. If (general!) you're still learning the basics of how to conduct adult-type relationships (as one does when they're fifteen) at, say, 45, then something went wrong somewhere. Which is the only way I can figure that anyone would like/appreciate that level of naivity.

Well, not the only way/reason/whatever. But the other reasoning about grown-ass adults in sexual relationships with people who navigate those same kinds of relationships with significantly more difficulty is why they'd want a partner so damned new and inexperienced. People tend to frown on getting used when half the equation isn't aware of the score.

 

[luckynumbah7]

As much as I don't show it, I agree with you.

However, do you realize you just contradicted yourself?

Would you judge readiness by age or not?

Morally no, ethically yes. There is no contradiction. Although there might seem like one if you don't know the difference between the two. You're discussing laws and changes therein and then you seem to me to be confusing them with morals - and then confusing that with behavior that society could do well emulating on the basis of if-only.

The answer in 'real-time', by the way, cannot be yes. Or at least not the unmitigated one it is today. Because no one is automatically up for grabs by all and sundry just because a majority age was reached. You've missed the entire concept of what constitutes consent in your zeal to show blurred lines. Knowledge one is missing by virtue of inexperience + time fits snuggly into it.

 

[rareboy]

That's very true, actually.

I suppose I was only speaking from my own experience: people tend to call me sensitive (in a good way), understanding and connect with the wants of others pretty well. I tend to fall into a dilusion that others will be the same way. xD

So, maybe my sentiment (which you quoted) works for me and me only.

Though, I think the rest of my point still substantially stands.


Here's just the thing, though: do we punish adults who hand 15-year-olds cigarettes? Do we shame mothers in society when they allow their 13-year-olds to have drinks?

Why do we shame an adult who lets 14-year-olds do them?

Point taken.

However, how much of an 'exception' am I, really? I'm not some weird heaven-sent spirit manifested in human form, am I? If this was my experience, who knows how many other experiences may be similar to mine. Already, you seem to admit that yours would have been had it not been for "society drawing the line".

Laws outside the USA, to remind you, handle precocious behaviour in a different way than we do. Again, I point to estupro laws in Latin-America.

Actually, we do punish adults who provide underage kids with tobacco and alcohol in Ontario.

Because the adults should know better.

 

[Level27]

Rareboy, please observe the honesty of your asssessment: we don't, in many to most their specific cases, treat adults who wrongfully provide 15-year-olds with alchohol/drugs the same way we do to innocent adults who let 14-years-do them without doing anything back. We treat the former not as 'monsters of society' but mere moral-lacking idiots who need to do better. (I think, in argument, some people like to say that we do in fact treat them as 'monsters. However, we're not isolating beer distributors 1000-feet away from school yards and areas where children dwell. No, we fine them, even put them behind bars, and they get to go places where kids are; even see their kids again until so many offenses.)

My mis-wording my thought with "punishment" may have been easy for you, but that only lasts for so long. Perhaps the mis-wording was my own fault, but I think you knew what I was going at.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Rareboy, please observe the honesty of your asssessment: we don't, in many to most their specific cases, treat adults who wrongfully provide 15-year-olds with alchohol/drugs the same way we do to innocent adults who let 14-years-do them without doing anything back. We treat the former not as "monsters of society" but mere moral-lacking idiots who need to do better.

My mis-wording my thought with "punishment" may have been easy for you, but that only lasts for so long. Perhaps the mis-wording was my own fault, but I think you knew what I was going at.

You cannot call your average adult innocent when they're the ones with greater sexual knowledge and experience in such situations. And they've got it, if only through time. And I'd be indescribably hard-pressed to call 'em innocent if they're having sex with a 14 yr old.

 

[Level27]

I agree with at least your first statement; have from the beginning.

 

[luckynumbah7]

In other words, I suppose if people are calling the sexual behavior/predelictions you're pontificating on into question and describing them in 'kid-raping' terms, them you might want to ponder on why that is. Especially as you repetatively reassure that you have no interest in underage individuals. Contrarywise, if that guestimate disagrees with you and there actually is no interest then think on this - The devil needs no advocates, the fucker's got enough. If you don't understand something that's both culturally constructed and very, very instinctual (ie, children's safety) then it's usually a good idea to leave well enough alone.

Although people could definitely benefit from general conversations about consent and what consent itself entails.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Hell, for a continuation~

Although people could definitely benefit from general conversations about consent and what consent itself entails. Basic adult knowledge discrepancy between individuals is the way to go about understanding the basics of consent with intellectual and emotional peers. Not...whatever's going on here. Feel like I need a good scrub.

 

[Telstra]

So to call someone a pedophile,
He or she must be attracted/want to have sex with young people below the puberty age range.
Is this the correct definition ??

 

[TheLoveableLoner]

No. And linking the two is a rather superficial, ignorant way of saying that skinnier guys aren't "man enough."

 

[rareboy]

Rareboy, please observe the honesty of your asssessment: we don't, in many to most their specific cases, treat adults who wrongfully provide 15-year-olds with alchohol/drugs the same way we do to innocent adults who let 14-years-do them without doing anything back. We treat the former not as 'monsters of society' but mere moral-lacking idiots who need to do better. (I think, in argument, some people like to say that we do in fact treat them as 'monsters. However, we're not isolating beer distributors 1000-feet away from school yards and areas where children dwell. No, we fine them, even put them behind bars, and they get to go places where kids are; even see their kids again until so many offenses.)

My mis-wording my thought with "punishment" may have been easy for you, but that only lasts for so long. Perhaps the mis-wording was my own fault, but I think you knew what I was going at.

There is no such thing as an innocent adult who lets a 14 year old do anything to them. Which is not to say the the 14 year old is innocent either.

But the role of the adult in every case is to be the adult and to draw the line.

Obviously, this didn't happen in your experience and you apparently enjoyed it....but it simply doesn't change the fact that laws about legal age for sex can't be based on allowances for exceptions. Many children are groomed and set up to be victimized...even to the point of making sure that it is the child who will be making the first moves....but it usually involves some pretty predatory mind games and intent to exploit.