Occupy Wall Street

[JB3]

Not so -- they just didn't have the plunderer's concept of property. Just because they lacked a concept of "private land ownership" doesn't mean there was no theft. A parallel now would be if I and some armed companions moved into a national park and laid claim to the land and argued it wasn't theft because the land wasn't private property.



No, the Ford dealer doesn't have a finite quantity -- he has as many as the factory can turn out, and he thinks he'll need. If seven billion people had the money, they could pre-order from a single dealer, and that dealer would have seven billion pickups, as they moved across his lot.

Real estate cannot be created. It is not manufactured. It exists prior to humanity. As such, it is in a category by itself. The ONLY basis for 'ownership' of real estate is force; the basis for ownership of a Ford is its manufacture.

Okay. Well, I'll see you later this week to kick you off the land that you're occupying, since it belongs to me too.

Kuli, you're speaking nonsense. What I want to say, I can't because it would violate the CoC, so I'll just say this; the ideas you're putting forth are, at their very core, irrational. They are not grounded in reality, and are not built on a foundation for anything except anarchy. You have lost the plot in this whole thing, and its showing how radical your ideology really is.

 

[Kulindahr]

They are a leaderless, pointless group. There are some sensible libertarians among their number, but by and large they can't even agree what they want to accomplish. Taking arms and making specific demands would be a marked improvement.

Here's the Wikipedia entry on this grabastic mess of a supposed organization. Read it and get back to us if you can figure what their demands are. It's about as clear as mud.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street

Leaderless? Only in the traditional sense.

Pointless? Only to the willfully blind.

 

[Kulindahr]

Okay. Well, I'll see you later this week to kick you off the land that you're occupying, since it belongs to me too.

That's just sticking with the current irrational, unjustifiable system of "ownership".

Kuli, you're speaking nonsense. What I want to say, I can't because it would violate the CoC, so I'll just say this; the ideas you're putting forth are, at their very core, irrational. They are not grounded in reality, and are not built on a foundation for anything except anarchy. You have lost the plot in this whole thing, and its showing how radical your ideology really is.

No, they're just not grounded in force, is all. They're grounded in a lot of reality -- the very objective one that there is no rational claim to own something that can't be manufactured, and the very sound one that numerous cultures throughout history have grasped and honored: no one can own the earth.

The only place anarchy is involved is in the current system, based on might makes right. It's a system that has resulted in bloodshed through the centuries. It's founded on authoritarianism, and reinforces authoritarianism.

 

[andysayshi]

They are a leaderless, pointless group. There are some sensible libertarians among their number, but by and large they can't even agree what they want to accomplish. Taking arms and making specific demands would be a marked improvement.

Here's the Wikipedia entry on this grabastic mess of a supposed organization. Read it and get back to us if you can figure what their demands are. It's about as clear as mud.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street

So, to clarify, their cause is listed on your link as:

Cause: Wealth inequality, Corporate influence of government, Social Democracy

Are you saying you disagree with the cause, or do you agree with the cause but just feel the behaviour of the protesters is wrong?

How do you think you would have responded to protesters in Boston on a cold December night in 1773? I'd suggest the conservatives of the time were fairly disgusted by their behaviour too.

The OWS protesters may well be a fairly unfocussed bunch (I heartily agree with you there) but I believe their intentions are well placed, and the overall causes listed above have merit. If your greatest criticism of them is a lack of focus, I think that's a lot better than alternatives like violence or recklessness. The fact that OWS has been, overall, a remarkably passive and civilised action is worthy of applause in my books.

 

[Jack Springer]

Leaderless? Only in the traditional sense.

That makes absolutely no sense.

Are we writing a new dictionary?

 

[White Eagle]

A little balance . . . . .

14 yo Teen Raped at Occupy Dallas

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/10/24/accusations-of-teen-runaway-sexual-activity-at-occupy-dallas/

Seattle Protester Refuses to Let Police Officer Get in Car to Handle Other Duties

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/komo...s-Occupy-Seattle-enters-its-4th-2231286.php:-)



Cuomo is a democrat. I don't understand.

Good Lord again!
You will believe anything. The girl states she has "had sex with a man in his early twenties and had engaged in sexual activity with several other people."
Members of the group says "the girl identified herself as a 19-year-old and never knew she was 14."
It is still under investigation. Why don't you wait til the investigation is over before you stow thrones.

 

[jackoroe]

Good Lord again!
You will believe anything. The girl states she has "had sex with a man in his early twenties and had engaged in sexual activity with several other people."
Members of the group says "the girl identified herself as a 19-year-old and never knew she was 14."
It is still under investigation. Why don't you wait til the investigation is over before you stow thrones.

She was 14 years old. The age of consent in Texas is 17 years old. Further, there is no close in age exception to the law that would excuse anyone who had sex with her.

http://www.age-of-consent.info/states/Texas

She was raped, plain and simple.

 

[White Eagle]

I will tell you the same thins. It has not been established that she is 14. Members of the group said she said she was 19.
The police have not said that she was 14. Wait til the investigation is completed then you can gripe about it.
BTW it is not Occupy Dallas' problem it is one person in it that "might" have done it.
Y'all are trying too hard to say the Occupy protest is wrong.

Just a thought. Why don't y'all go by the forum rules and prove by a cite that she is 14.

 

[CowboyBob]

Don't take the bait Springer left in the thread. He's taking one extreme example and trying to demonize the entire movement because of it.

 

[White Eagle]

Too late, I guess I already have.

 

[jackoroe]

I will tell you the same thins. It has not been established that she is 14. Members of the group said she said she was 19.
The police have not said that she was 14. Wait til the investigation is completed then you can gripe about it.
BTW it is not Occupy Dallas' problem it is one person in it that "might" have done it.
Y'all are trying too hard to say the Occupy protest is wrong.

Just a thought. Why don't y'all go by the forum rules and prove by a cite that she is 14.

There is no such forum rule that requires anyone to prove she's 14 or that she's been raped. It was a news story from a legitimate source that another poster thought be of interest.

What I did find even more interesting, is that the OWS kooks in Baltimore have taken the position that those people who have been sexually assaulted should not report the crime to police, but to the brain trust running the protest debacle.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20..._1_sexual-assaults-sexual-abuse-report-crimes

Dissuading people who have been sexually assaulted to report such crimes is reprehensible and may very well be considered witness tampering or obstructing the administration of law.

 

[jackoroe]

Here's a story about a 19 year old girl that was made to sleep in a tent with a male who she did not know. The OWS people in Cleveland thought that was a good idea. Now, the woman is alleging that she was raped by that man.

Nice folks!
http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2011/10/18/occupy-cleveland-protester-alleges-she-was-raped/

 

[White Eagle]

Show me in that cite where the police says she is 14

 

[Kulindahr]

She was 14 years old. The age of consent in Texas is 17 years old. Further, there is no close in age exception to the law that would excuse anyone who had sex with her.

http://www.age-of-consent.info/states/Texas

She was raped, plain and simple.

Are you buying into the barbaric notion that people interested in sex have to be omniscient, or at least psychic? If she said she was nineteen, the fault is hers.

 

[White Eagle]

Excuse me on that forum rules bit. But it is nice if posters WOULD post sites that cover their message.

 

[White Eagle]

You are giving me links that have nothing to do with the matter we were talking about. I'm talking about the 19 year old in Dallas. When the investigation is complete then you and Jack Springer can finish the posts.

 

[Jack Springer]

I could have asked you to cite a link to the true origin this quote ....

"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children." --Ancient Indian Proverb

This thread is is about Occupy Wall Street.

You are giving me links that have nothing to do with the matter we were talking about. I'm talking about the 19 year old in Dallas. When the investigation is complete then you and Jack Springer can finish the posts.

 

[Kulindahr]

Here's a story about a 19 year old girl that was made to sleep in a tent with a male who she did not know. The OWS people in Cleveland thought that was a good idea. Now, the woman is alleging that she was raped by that man.

Nice folks!
http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2011/10/18/occupy-cleveland-protester-alleges-she-was-raped/

That's just bizarre. The article says she's a student going to school there, so presumably she had her own housing not far away. Why the heck would they tell her to share a tent with a strange guy when she could have just walked to her own bed?

 

[jackoroe]

Are you buying into the barbaric notion that people interested in sex have to be omniscient, or at least psychic? If she said she was nineteen, the fault is hers.

No, I subscribe to the barbaric notion that people of age shouldn't be fucking children. Apparently the state of Texas shares that belief with me and other civilized humans.

Blaming the victim is not cool, either.

 

[White Eagle]

Accusing an adult without proof that he "raped" her is not cool either.