To all married or divorced guys. Lets start fighting our corner!

[1gayguy]

I think he meant as in mistakes that one has committed and made right. These are all wonderful accomplishments, but what are the ones that were based out of situations where you made mistakes and then made them right?

Sans judgement and out of curiosity of your life history, I just want to know what your story was with your marriage and child, and coming out, etc? I guess the other thread I linked to would be more appropriate, but here is pretty good, too.

The only mistake I made was not coming out sooner. I had my reasons. Suffice to say when my marriage ended, I moved back into the family home and I chose not to burden my parents with the news when they had more serious issues to deal with such as their failing health.
My marriage wasn't a sham, I did love my wife, romantically and platonically. Two yeears into my marriage my gay urges started to surface again. Iwas able to keep them to myself with a vivid fantasy life and my right hand. Again, I never stepped outside my marriage. My marriage ended when my wife found my stash of gay porn mags ( a whopping 3 or 4 of them). She drove to my parents' home that day.
I stood by my wife and daughter from the day I was wed to now.
I don't look at any facet of my life as a mistake. If I hadn't married, I wouldn't have the wonderful daughter that I do. If we hadn't divorced, I wouldn't have been able to be there to aid my parents when they needed someone on their side.If I hadn't delayed living my life, I wouldn't had met the man that I love and cherrish.
My life has happened just the way it was supposed to. In the time frame it was supposed to.
The only regret is that my parents aren't here to see how their youngest son has turned out and how happy he is. Unfortunately time took care of that.
My accomplishments are not in mistakes made right, my accomplishments come from living my life the way I thought it should be when it should be how I thought and think it should be. Not by anyone else's criteria of what I should have done and when I should have done.

 

[mike_n_herrin]

of course.

too bad you didn't get mine.

my point is that I fucking hate hearing men who came out late whining that we don't understand how haaarrrddd it is for them.

i'll try and simplify the point of the thread since you didn't get it. it WASN'T to complain that "we" don't understand them or know how hard it is for them. it was to point out to people like you that they are tired of being insulted by you and others like you every time they post something in reference to being married and gay.

this thread really has nothing to do with how hard it is being gay and married, or gay and whatever anything else. it's all about pointing out how insulting people can be and ARE being to those men here who are married.

 

[luminum]

Well of course, because the kids are blameless in the situation. But that's pretty far fetched to weigh (and I'm not accusing anyone of this) knocking up clueless women so you can make pro-homo kids...

Plus, think of how many kids hate homosexuals because their lives were ruined by a parent coming out and 'wrecking' their families. Misguided? Yes. A reality, yes. Some kids are good enough to accept their parents, but others aren't.

People getting into fatal car accidents resulting in more organ donations has a positive side, but it certainly doesn't mean that car accidents are 'good'. Pro-homo kids are a great side to loveless, decpetive marriages, or confused marriages, but that doesn't make the crumbling marriage or a marriage based on false pretenses good at all...

 

[Soilwork]

this thread really has nothing to do with how hard it is being gay and married, or gay and whatever anything else. it's all about pointing out how insulting people can be and ARE being to those men here who are married.

If it makes you feel better to think that, then ok.

 

[Rali_hates_Mondays]

Nick's post is certainly one that deserves sympathy far more than other posts.

I can empathise with the situation of gay married men but as for sympathy... well you won't find much of it here or anywhere else. Once you're married expect to receive the inevitable judgements.

 

[Candyapple]

There is good to be found in some closet dad-clueless mom marriages.

Its a way of integrating all people in ways which could potentially make everyone more accepting.

.

Everyone? Really? What about the 'clueless moms'? Do you think they'll be more accepting of homosexuality? Or do they not count? What about their families and loved ones, who learn that their daughter/sister/friend has been lied to for years, even decades? Will they all be understanding and accepting?

And the kids who come to realise that their fathers lived a lie - will they be more accepting of homosexuality, or will they 'learn' that it's something to hide as long as possible, something to be ashamed of? How will closeted fathers teach their children to be accepting of it??

I understand what you mean, but I totally disagree. I don't think that people being 'clueless' about who their partners and fathers really are is a recipe for anything good.

 

[rareboy]

I find it tremendously telling that dodo, who initiated this combative discussion is one of the few who hasn't actually told us his story, only that we have no right to judge.

Frankly methinks thou doth protest too much, dodo.

At the end of the day, all the closet homos who think they could have it all ways by having a wife and kids and some quick homo sex on the side might get my abject pity for their hopeless inability to face the music, but never my understanding.

By the way, I knew a couple who married with the full knowledge that Billy was gay or 'bisexual'. There was no subterfuge. They had two children that they raised beautifully. Unfortunately, Billy died of AIDS contracted from bathhouse sex in the early days before we'd all even learned about the risks. Unfortunately his wife got it too. The kids went to foster homes.

I had a boss many years ago who decided he was gay after repressing it for twenty years of perfect marriage and three kids. Everyone stayed cool with it when the family broke up....oh yeah, except the kids went from 'A' students to drop-outs, his wife discovered cocaine and then crack and Peter and his new trophy bf also didn't quite make it after all, Peter started drinking a lot, lost his business and finally offed himself in a parking lot.

It never seems to have a great ending does it.

 

[NickCole]

The only mistake I made was not coming out sooner. I had my reasons. Suffice to say when my marriage ended, I moved back into the family home and I chose not to burden my parents with the news when they had more serious issues to deal with such as their failing health.
My marriage wasn't a sham, I did love my wife, romantically and platonically. Two yeears into my marriage my gay urges started to surface again. Iwas able to keep them to myself with a vivid fantasy life and my right hand. Again, I never stepped outside my marriage. My marriage ended when my wife found my stash of gay porn mags ( a whopping 3 or 4 of them). She drove to my parents' home that day.
I stood by my wife and daughter from the day I was wed to now.
I don't look at any facet of my life as a mistake. If I hadn't married, I wouldn't have the wonderful daughter that I do. If we hadn't divorced, I wouldn't have been able to be there to aid my parents when they needed someone on their side.If I hadn't delayed living my life, I wouldn't had met the man that I love and cherrish.
My life has happened just the way it was supposed to. In the time frame it was supposed to.
The only regret is that my parents aren't here to see how their youngest son has turned out and how happy he is. Unfortunately time took care of that.
My accomplishments are not in mistakes made right, my accomplishments come from living my life the way I thought it should be when it should be how I thought and think it should be. Not by anyone else's criteria of what I should have done and when I should have done.

Well aren't you just the bee's knees.

You lied to your wife, whom you loved "romantically and platonically," you lied to your "wonderful" daughter, you lied to your parents.

No doubt you also lied to your friends and neighbors and co-workers and everybody else. And you sure are aces at lying to yourself.

You only came out because you were busted -- and you even manage to dismiss personal responsibility for what had to be a horrific traumatic event for your wife (no big deal it was only "a whopping 3 or 4 of them"). Your wife drove to your parent's house for comfort -- that says something really heartbreaking about her life and how she wrapped it in yours while you were lying to her.

Anybody who lies as much as you have to the people who trust him has hurt a lot of people. A lot. But you justify it neatly with four words. "I had my reasons."

I sure hope the man you "love and cherish" today has a very strong constitution because he'll need it. Nobody spends all those years lying to all the people he loves, denies responsibility for the cruelty of it and then suddenly becomes trustworthy with their new love. You lie to your man today. You know it and I know it.

The only regret is that my parents aren't here to see how their youngest son has turned out and how happy he is.

That's your only regret.

Boy oh boy.

 

[rareboy]

Just a follow-up. While well intentioned, I think that careyeverwood's post demonstrates a naivete beyond my comprehension. It smacks of the type of rationalization I hear addicts use to justify their behaviour.

...and could you please explain wtf the following means?

And even tossing a straight guy here and there into the Castro can led to better understanding of all mankind.

 

[NickCole]

so you think every gay married man is like that and so they should all be treated this way? that's moronic in the extreme. it's like saying all gay men are _____ [insert stupid bigoted remark] or all black folks are _____ [insert other stupid bigoted remark], all republicans are ____ [are you getting my point yet?]

I got your point and here's what I have to say about it.

A gay married man is not the same as being gay or being black or even being a Republican.

A gay married man is a man who's made a decision to lie to the world about who he is. And even more than that, he's decided to lie to the woman who places her most fundamental trust in him, and to lie to his children.

It's a decision to be deceptive to the people closest to him.

 

[NickCole]

Just a follow-up. While well intentioned, I think that careyeverwood's post demonstrates a naivete beyond my comprehension. It smacks of the type of rationalization I hear addicts use to justify their behaviour.

...and could you please explain wtf the following means?

I think careyeverwood is under the impression that those who deceive us make the world a better place and help us better understand each other.

If he offers you candy or Kool-aid, don't take it.

 

[1gayguy]

NickCole, Did you experience any part of my life other than what I posted here? Have you never told or perpetuated any kind of lie or are you ready for sainthood. Did you come out of the womb telling your mother and dad, I'm gay?!
You don't have to approve of how I have lived to my life. Was it easy for my former wife after we divorced? No, I never said it was. At least we weren't married long and I didn't "waste" that much of her time.
What I disclosed here was just the surface, the very tip of what went on. You can't write down every thought or experience of 46 years in an on line forum nor would I want to. You want to condemn me. Go right ahead. Glad to know that you and other's who stand in judgment of anyone else are so much better and have lived exemplorary lives.
Anyone of us can sit and play the what if or the why or how come in judgement of anyone elses life and we do so for any number of reasons but none of us are perfect, nor did I claim to be. I am still proud of my accomplishments and will continue to be. Read back and you'll see that I didn't ask for sympathy. I don't even ask for acceptance. I will ask for and expect tolerance for that's all any of us has the right to expect.

 

[rareboy]

I think that what many of us are waiting for is an explanation from someone regarding their decision to marry and breed that isn't based on self-deception, deception of others and fear of discovery, fear of economic hardship and on and on.

I think if dodo and the others like him want to 'fight back' against lack of understanding and acceptance, the rationalizations and motivations have to be stronger and purer than most of the pathetic excuses being offered by everyone cowering behind the battlements of 'you can't understand me unless you lived through yourself' Trust me, it is quite possible to understand something without direct personal experience. It is impossible to empathize, but perfectly possible to understand.

 

[1gayguy]

I did marry for selfish reasons. I admit that.
I did it out of self doubt, and expectations of others (family ,friends, society). Financial gain...erm no. For a sense of normalcy...yes. If you search around Hot Topics you may find my answers esle where.
Have I been proud of this... no. I am however proud of what came out the otherside.
I have more to add but have things to do right now, like shovel and the help my partner's son move appliances.

 

[dodo2761]

Many people have suffered more than me. I've never suggested any different.

But you seemed to suggest in your first post that guys like me have never had to go through anything unpleasant when coming out. And that's just not the case.

Hey man, if you wanna get all defensive when I call you out, it's your thread.

I have read numerous entries on posts where married men or divorced men are attcked for what they have done or decision they make- the point i was making is that we all have issues and married men or dicvorced men dont deserve to be abused just because we made bad decisions.
In a private message to me you said

''As if those of us who came out younger and without using people as props didn't know the pain of rejection, fear of reprisal or shame of exposure.

Trust me. I dont' whine about it, but my life was harder than yours''

So you have claimed that you suffered more than me- where is your evidence?

''When I went to the cops to tell them that I was in fear of my life, I was asked "What did you do to deserve that?"

When I told the cops that I hadn't done anything, I was sent away until you're ready to come back and tell us what you did."

''I'm sure you had it hard, and youprobably don't have the strength of resolve I've got now. My words cut like a knife and hit like a brick now.

I know how many bruises I've cause just by typing how I feel. I guess I should take it easy on guys like you who obviously need my understanding.

Just know that I feel like I was always the victim. I got treated like shit by guys like you and then when all was said and done, I was the bad guy for not just getting over it in my spare time and helping you come out.''

''We paved the fucking road for you, ok?

If it wasn't for people who came out, you'd never have done it.''

Please dont claim you are better than anyone else- you maybe unique as an individual but then again we all are- just because you came out when you did doesnt mean you alone paved the way for us.
All of us had battles- some still being fought.

It doesnt mean we deserve to be vilified for mistakes any more than you.

 

[NickCole]

I can't help but notice that a man who hid in a closet, lied to a woman in marriage, kept a huge secret about himself from his friends, and then came on here barking about how painful his life has been because of it, is perfectly at ease posting the contents of a private message on a public forum.

Bad form.

 

[Candyapple]

I assume you know what 'PM' means. So why are you sharing it with the entire forum??? As Nick said, bad form. Very,very bad. Hope the mods delete the post. You have no right to post the contents of Soilwork's PM here.

 

[dodo2761]

He has no right to slag me off without knowing me!
He too has referred to comments made about him in PM- one rule for one and not for another????
He declared war not me- all being fair in love and war!

 

[Piquechampion]

Yeah, you wanna know what people think back in my country?

They say that being gay is not that bad, but to be gay and get married is awful,and that they are ones giving the gays a bad name In fact they say that those men should be shot (direct word of a lot of people). Of course my country is a very fucked up place, and thats NOT how I think.

Just reporting the general feeling back home.

 

[Soilwork]

He has no right to slag me off without knowing me!
He too has referred to comments made about him in PM- one rule for one and not for another????
He declared war not me- all being fair in love and war!

I'd expect a man with any integrity to know that things said in private stay in private.

you can repeat general things said, but you don't quote people and then say who the quotes are from.

but then, you married a woman for cover... you HAVE no integrity, do you?

Thanks for showing us you've learned nothing.