On Topic Discussion 2 yo boy killed by alligator at Disney

[luckynumbah7]

The issue here is a Disney operated resort that attracts families, including children who are not anticipating alligators in their immediate vicinity when renting property, and using beach facilities provided by Disney.

It would have been bad for business had Disney erected a sign stating that their holiday resort was built in the middle of an alligator infested zone....evidenced by an alligator seizing a child.

Even assuming tourists complied with the no swimming sign, confining their beach activities to tanning...there was also the risk of an alligator exiting the water to seize its prey from tourists relaxing on the beach unaware that an alligator was approaching them with deadly intent.

The risk involves all of Florida, though. Disney isn't special. Unless there's a no swimming/alligator sign for the tourists on every streetcorner and Disney had no sign, then I'd be looking at Disney. I don't think I'd blame Disney for 'failing to inform' as I'd consider gators to be common knowlege - and one of the first things mentioned in conjuction with the word Florida in every conversation I can ever remember. Which is kinda funny, considering I rather loath Disney.

Tho if they were on every streetcorner (google tells me there's a lot of gator and no swimming sign variations) I'd be hard pressed to think they weren't informed Florida is for gators. This fall under one of those Common Knowledge things or not? Like knowing India has Cobras.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Whether the number of alligators is one, or fifty is not pertinent....for the child is dead....but be certain that where you find one alligator, you'll find others.

Correct. All over the state. As an expert on Florida wildlife said.

Frank Mazzotti, a professor of wildlife ecology at University of Florida, said the fact that the Disney lagoon was man-made matters little. Alligators pop up constantly in man-made canals, golf course lakes and retention ponds that dot the state. “It’s really impossible to keep them out of any body of water,” Mazzotti said.

Mazzotti noted that Florida has a “first-class” nuisance program that will help businesses or citizens remove or relocate alligators that behave in a threatening manner. “The success of that is reflected in how rare these events are,” he said. “What this comes down to is the fact that as much as we might like to — and especially for our children — we cannot totally remove risk from life…. Something like this is likely no one’s fault…. This is bad luck, unfortunate circumstances.”

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

If the Alligator was the problem, why are we holding Disney responsible? Take that damn Alligator to court!

What an asshole this guy is!

 

[xbuzzerx]

The risk involves all of Florida, though. Disney isn't special. Unless there's an alligator sign for the tourists on every streetcorner I don't think I'd blame Disney for 'failing to inform'. Which is kinda funny, considering I rather loath Disney.

Same. I'm sure a few people are wondering if I hold Disney stock or something. I friggin despise the company. But what I despise more is the mentality that areas of natural wildlife or natural landscape are expected to be sterilized for human safety by default assumption, and that if they aren't, there is financial and litigious liability which can be directed at someone else. Even in instances where people disregarded well known risks and even posted signs telling them not to enter areas.

 

[Kahaih]

The zone that I am referencing is the tourist site operated by Disney.

The only evidence that is needed is the drowning of a child by an alligator.

Whether the number of alligators is one, or fifty is not pertinent....for the child is dead....but be certain that where you find one alligator, you'll find others.

I am certain that the plaintiff's counsel will do their research, and provide the court with more than sufficient evidence to support their claim that Disney failed to inform their customers that the tourist site operated by Disney has an alligator, or alligators population.

Last I heard, they have killed at least 5 alligators in that area, and still not satisfied that they have killed/found the one that killed the child.

 

[kallipolis]

I hear that Disney is now erecting signs at their resort warning of the presence of alligators. Progress.

Good night all....it's bed time in Greece.

 

[Cormac135]

Last I heard, they have killed at least 5 alligators in that area, and still not satisfied that they have killed/found the one that killed the child.

I wonder how many they will be satisfied with, how many alligators equal a kids life.

Unless they're gutting them and looking for kids trainers etc, etc.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Last I heard, they have killed at least 5 alligators in that area, and still not satisfied that they have killed/found the one that killed the child.

The precise sort of reaction that results directly from people feeling entitled to exclusive use of natural landscape which does, shockingly to humans, have a native ecosystem independent of their sense of entitlement to safe recreation in uncontrolled landscapes.

Absolutely the only upside is that I'm not aware that alligators in Florida are in any way endangered to my knowledge, but that wouldn't stop this reaction even if they were.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Death in this case was caused by a deadly hazard..an alligator.. that the site operator failed to draw to the attention of their paying customers.

Beaches in Greece frequently require payment for access, I'm told by people who've visited.

They are accountable for shark attacks, jellyfish stings and other?

 

[Alistair]

I'm not from Florida but I've been there. I went to St. Pete with my roommate and visited his mom. We walked down the street to the neighborhood park. It wasn't a tourist attraction. Right at the entrance was a warning sign for alligators. At the entrance to the walk was a warning sign for alligators. Half a mile down the walk at the small lake was yet another warning sign, a no swimming sign and a no wading sign. The signs continued every 100 yards or so all the way around the lake. If a community park finds it necessary to warn people that live in Florida and know the dangers of alligators as all you claim, why would it be so difficult for a warning sign to be posted reminding people from around the world that haven't had any experience with Florida wildlife, that there's a danger present right outside there hotel? You all seriously can't tell me that you think Disney shouldn't have had a sign posted.

 

[xbuzzerx]

The parents were directly behind the child. Had they known that the waters were infested with alligators they certainly would not have gone wading.

They were still disregarding signs warning them out of water.

Disney is willingly changing the signs to include alligator. What's next? Red algae? Leprosy? Potentially dangerous protozoan colonies that "infest" their property and which they "certainly must have been aware of?"

They should just put up a sign saying "we have absolutely no idea what all possible things could kill you in this water, but probably tons of things could, so don't friggin go into it." And people would still disregard it, and you'd still insist they were at fault.

 

[xbuzzerx]

You all seriously can't tell me that you think Disney shouldn't have had a sign posted.

Disney did have a sign posted.

People disregarded that sign.

The specific thing that killed their child wasn't mentioned on the sign. But alligators are certainly not the only possible way anyone could die in any body of water, public or private, in the state.

Hence my questions about the extensiveness of which you feel signs should warn about any possible risk of death of any type.

 

[luckynumbah7]

....To be fair to the people who managed to miss there's still scaly dinosaurs wandering the earth that have no problem eating you, just to drive the point home I suppose they could include a big picture about, what, twenty feet or so from the high tide line of a crocodile or alligator to go with the 'no bloody swimming'. I promise some tourist will think it's part of the 'experience' and a joke sign, though. Cuz that's how people are. Maybe if there was a fine listed people would take it seriously.

 

[xbuzzerx]

....To be fair to the people who managed to miss there's still scaly dinosaurs wandering the earth that have no problem eating you, just to drive the point home I suppose they could include a big picture about, what, twenty feet or so from the high tide line of a crocodile or alligator to go with the 'no bloody swimming'. I promise some tourist will think it's part of the 'experience' and a joke sign, though. Cuz that's how people are. Maybe if there was a fine listed people would take it seriously.

Disney's already doing that, of course, following this incident.

But putting this incident together with the Ohio zoo incident, it's clear that had there actually been physical barriers around the water that wouldn't be enough either to satisfy people's need to exact vengeance when they have been negligent and it has resulted in severe risk or injury to themselves, or to expunge parents of responsibility for failing to watch kids or even, in this case, disregarding safety signs.

 

[luckynumbah7]

I'm not from Florida but I've been there. I went to St. Pete with my roommate and visited his mom. We walked down the street to the neighborhood park. It wasn't a tourist attraction. Right at the entrance was a warning sign for alligators. At the entrance to the walk was a warning sign for alligators. Half a mile down the walk at the small lake was yet another warning sign, a no swimming sign and a no wading sign. The signs continued every 100 yards or so all the way around the lake. If a community park finds it necessary to warn people that live in Florida and know the dangers of alligators as all you claim, why would it be so difficult for a warning sign to be posted reminding people from around the world that haven't had any experience with Florida wildlife, that there's a danger present right outside there hotel? You all seriously can't tell me that you think Disney shouldn't have had a sign posted.

There was a sign. Two in the image posted.

 

[TickTockMan]

I just saw an article saying Disney employees warned management that the gators were getting too close to guests. Management did nothing.

 

[luckynumbah7]

I just saw an article saying Disney employees warned management that the gators were getting too close to guests. Management did nothing.

Okay, now that I'll believe. Tho you'd think, it being Disney, that they'd have some staff to deal specifically with gator removal and other wildlife issues.

 

[Alistair]

There was a sign. Two in the image posted.

There Was No Alligator Sign!

Just said no swimming, dangerous drop-off, Damn

 

[xbuzzerx]

There Was No Alligator Sign!

Just said no swimming, dangerous drop-off, Damn

No Swimming you'd think would be sufficient when you are protecting the life of your two year old kid, to not take them into the water at 9pm at night.

 

[Alistair]

You'd think having a gator come out of the water and chasing people would be enough to decide to make your beach safe for your guests.